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The article was very sensationalist -- the survey was merely taking the title of the recording and trying to collect data on how users were using the platform.

The article was very sensationalist -- the survey was merely taking the title of the recording and trying to collect data on how users were using the platform. Normally I side against companies in these situation but there is literally no appearance of foul play or spookiness on otter's part -- most unsurprising thing ever really just a reporter that sees a survey asking about a title that he wrote himself and getting spooked because apparently even in 2022 tech is hard to grok for normies.

mannykannot 5y ago
"An initial confirmation that the survey was legitimate was followed by a denial from the same Otter representative, laced with a warning that I “not respond to that survey and delete it.” My communications with Otter were all restricted to email and were sporadic, often confusing and contradictory." That's where the story rises above the mundane.
- sam0x17 5y ago
  Could be something more, but Occam's Razor says it's just support being like wtf is this and dropping the ball in handling the request. If support at your company got an email saying "omg! sensitive information in our recording is being referenced in this random survey we got from you!" I guarantee 2/3 companies would flub the initial response because the support person doesn't understand the technical side of the issue which is that titles are used in one of the survey templates
  - fjorde 5y ago
    Journalists who deal in sensitive material should not trust any of that to any third parties to the greatest extent possible. If I were Chinese intel or the FBI, otter would be one of the richest targets imaginable for some of the most prized information on earth, i.e. high-value intel targets spilling secrets in "full-confidence" and divulging information they might never reveal even in court. otter also transcribes medical/psych convos and legal discussions as well, bringing the sum total of what they could "know" about any human, willing or not, to scary levels. Journalists who are casual or reckless with this kind of data shouldn't be in the business, and companies that don't make these kinds of risks apparent to their user base, or go to lengths to disguise a clear conflict of interest as bad support should not be in that business either.
    - sam0x17 5y ago
      Right but my point is there is nothing surprising or groundbreaking about the the fact that the journalist received the survey and that it contained the information that it contained, but media coverage of this is treating it like there was some shocking breach or cooperation with a foreign power when really it's quite a mundane situation by all accounts. The shocking revelation should be that journalists who normally are so careful they use end-to-end client-side encryption for their communications are using third party transcription services that have full access to their sensitive interviews. That's a faux pas and critical security blunder on the journalist's part, not otter's, though one learning here is maybe otter should consider offering some sort of secure enclave service for situations like this with additional guarantees and client-controlled encryption keys.
- bigcat123 5y ago
- tedunangst 5y ago
  The whole story would be much more clear with a complete email chain. We're given fragments and interpretations, but since the whole episode stems from a misunderstanding, none of it is reliable. "Not respond to that survey and delete it" is also the ending of a sentence that begins "if you would feel more comfortable, you can".
  - mannykannot 5y ago
    Well, that is interesting - when I access that article through the link above, the phrase "not respond to that survey and delete it" occurs just once, in the passage I quoted in my original post, which does not contain the phrase fragment "if you would feel more comfortable, you can..." - in fact, this phrase does not occur at all. Where are you getting your information from - is there a link to this correspondence, in the article or elsewhere?
    - tedunangst 5y ago
      Well, that's the point. We don't know the first half of the sentence.
      - mannykannot 5y ago
        You wrote, in what is a complete paragraph, '"Not respond to that survey and delete it" is also the ending of a sentence that begins "if you would feel more comfortable, you can".' [my emphasis.] 'Is also' has very different implications than 'could have been'.

mannykannot 5y ago

"An initial confirmation that the survey was legitimate was followed by a denial from the same Otter representative, laced with a warning that I “not respond to that survey and delete it.” My communications with Otter were all restricted to email and were sporadic, often confusing and contradictory." That's where the story rises above the mundane.

sam0x17 5y ago
Could be something more, but Occam's Razor says it's just support being like wtf is this and dropping the ball in handling the request. If support at your company got an email saying "omg! sensitive information in our recording is being referenced in this random survey we got from you!" I guarantee 2/3 companies would flub the initial response because the support person doesn't understand the technical side of the issue which is that titles are used in one of the survey templates
- fjorde 5y ago
  Journalists who deal in sensitive material should not trust any of that to any third parties to the greatest extent possible. If I were Chinese intel or the FBI, otter would be one of the richest targets imaginable for some of the most prized information on earth, i.e. high-value intel targets spilling secrets in "full-confidence" and divulging information they might never reveal even in court. otter also transcribes medical/psych convos and legal discussions as well, bringing the sum total of what they could "know" about any human, willing or not, to scary levels. Journalists who are casual or reckless with this kind of data shouldn't be in the business, and companies that don't make these kinds of risks apparent to their user base, or go to lengths to disguise a clear conflict of interest as bad support should not be in that business either.
  - sam0x17 5y ago
    Right but my point is there is nothing surprising or groundbreaking about the the fact that the journalist received the survey and that it contained the information that it contained, but media coverage of this is treating it like there was some shocking breach or cooperation with a foreign power when really it's quite a mundane situation by all accounts. The shocking revelation should be that journalists who normally are so careful they use end-to-end client-side encryption for their communications are using third party transcription services that have full access to their sensitive interviews. That's a faux pas and critical security blunder on the journalist's part, not otter's, though one learning here is maybe otter should consider offering some sort of secure enclave service for situations like this with additional guarantees and client-controlled encryption keys.
bigcat123 5y ago
tedunangst 5y ago
The whole story would be much more clear with a complete email chain. We're given fragments and interpretations, but since the whole episode stems from a misunderstanding, none of it is reliable. "Not respond to that survey and delete it" is also the ending of a sentence that begins "if you would feel more comfortable, you can".
- mannykannot 5y ago
  Well, that is interesting - when I access that article through the link above, the phrase "not respond to that survey and delete it" occurs just once, in the passage I quoted in my original post, which does not contain the phrase fragment "if you would feel more comfortable, you can..." - in fact, this phrase does not occur at all. Where are you getting your information from - is there a link to this correspondence, in the article or elsewhere?
  - tedunangst 5y ago
    Well, that's the point. We don't know the first half of the sentence.
    - mannykannot 5y ago
      You wrote, in what is a complete paragraph, '"Not respond to that survey and delete it" is also the ending of a sentence that begins "if you would feel more comfortable, you can".' [my emphasis.] 'Is also' has very different implications than 'could have been'.