5 ms·

I guess this coincides: https://financialpost.com/fp-finance/banking/banks-get-protesters-names-as-canada-financial-squeeze-unfolds?r https://financialpost.com

I guess this coincides: https://financialpost.com/fp-finance/banking/banks-get-protesters-names-as-canada-financial-squeeze-unfolds?r https://financialpost.com/fp-finance/banking/banks-get-prote... No court orders, no due process. Guess I'm just glad I'm not personally involved.

LoveGracePeace 5y ago
When I was growing up here in the US, to me the Royal Canadian Mounted Police always had an aura of honor. Those days are gone. Civil disobedience in Canada today means you may have your money removed from your account by law enforcement unless you cave and fall in line.
- sleepingadmin 5y ago
  >When I was growing up here in the US, to me the Royal Canadian Mounted Police always had an aura of honor. Those days are gone. Civil disobedience in Canada today means you may have your money removed from your account by law enforcement unless you cave and fall in line. The protesters have been quite public about how well the police have treated them. The police have at least to date done nothing wrong. So I would not go to the extent to say the RCMP's honour has been harmed at all. Those days aren't gone. However, this is the problem. Since the police have not been able to end the protest because of charter rights. This forced Trudeau's hand to declare martial law, but any and all peaceful protesters whose rights are infringed will be receiving compensation as per the emergency act.
  - armagon 5y ago
    > any and all peaceful protesters whose rights are infringed will be receiving compensation as per the emergency act. Interesting. This is the first I've heard of that. Discussion starts in Part V / Section 46 at https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/e-4.5/FullText.html https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/e-4.5/FullText.html
    - sleepingadmin 5y ago
      >Interesting. This is the first I've heard of that. Gotta remember, Trudeau's father declared martial law during the october crisis. There were literally bombs going off, people dying, and I will say there was an emergency then. However, after that because of human rights abuses during that martial law. They scrapped it and replaced it with the emergency act which explicitly requires the government to maintain human rights. Moreover, in the act, anything the government seizes must be returned to the people. The government doesn't get to just take your things. The politicians writing the emergency act knew that future governments exercising the emergency act will infringe upon rights. So compensation is to be expected. Now you have a problem. Any peaceful protesters can stick around and when they get arrested and removed from the area. They get nice retirement fund boosts from the government. So why would you even consider leaving if you want to leave?
  - UI_at_80x24 5y ago
    >The police have at least to date done nothing wrong. The complaint this time isn't about the police using unnecessary force to brutalize the public. Our complaint is that they haven't upheld the law, and are acting like 'buddies' with the people that they are supposed to be ticketing/incarcerating. We just want the police to do their fucking job.
    - sleepingadmin 5y ago
      >The complaint this time isn't about the police using unnecessary force to brutalize the public. Our complaint is that they haven't upheld the law, and are acting like 'buddies' with the people that they are supposed to be ticketing/incarcerating. What law have they not upheld? Some microscopic municipal bylaws? Can a municipal government create bylaws to criminalize peaceful assembly? I guess I have my answer, the Ottawa police says no. >We just want the police to do their fucking job. They have been so far. Great job Ottawa police.
      - UI_at_80x24 5y ago
        >What law have they not upheld? Some microscopic municipal bylaws? After googling it for 1 second: Ontario Highway Traffic Act,R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8 at section 132 132 (1) No motor vehicle shall be driven on a highway at such a slow rate of speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic thereon except when the slow rate of speed is necessary for safe operation having regard to all the circumstances. There are more violations that apply to the truck drivers then general public too.
  - mmastrac 5y ago
    The phrase "declare martial law" is 100% misinformation and I wish Americans and/or other interested worldwide observers that do not understand our Emergencies Act that was invoked would stop treating it like so.
    - sleepingadmin 5y ago
      >The phrase "declare martial law" is 100% misinformation and I wish Americans and/or other interested worldwide observers that do not understand our Emergencies Act that was invoked would stop treating it like so. Woah bud. Here's the act here. https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/e-4.5/FullText.html https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/e-4.5/FullText.html This is literally the last resort. This is a 'national emergency that cannot be effectively dealt with under any other law of Canada." Any other law. This is by definition Martial law. Martial law is the last resort. Which is why this has never ever been invoked before. Just because the ministry of truth doesn't call it martial law is irrelevant.
      - mmastrac 5y ago
        You are clearly biased and there's no possible way we can have a discussion. Enjoy your day.
        sleepingadmin 5y ago
        >You are clearly biased and there's no possible way we can have a discussion. Enjoy your day. Sorry you feel that way. Thanks, you enjoy your day as well. Oh before you go, if you read the link I provided(section 46). The emergency act specifically disallows charter rights to be violated. So the accounts they have seized already? Under Section 6 of the Charter of unreasonable search and seizure? Ya the government will now be paying them compensation for violating their rights.
        mmastrac 5y ago
        I should have said "agenda" rather than biased, sorry. I'm very aware of our Charter, thank you very much. I recommend reading section 1 of the charter and understanding what reasonable means in the context of section 8 (not 6 as in your comment) from the Canadian legal perspective.
  - JacobThreeThree 5y ago
    >This forced Trudeau's hand to declare martial law, but any and all peaceful protesters whose rights are infringed will be receiving compensation as per the emergency act. He wasn't forced to do anything, it was his choice, against the wishes of many premiers. Trudeau should have done what he did with the 2020 train blockade protests. Met with the protestors, had a dialogue about the issues (mandates) and come to a compromise conclusion.
    - sleepingadmin 5y ago
      >Trudeau should have done what he did with the 2020 train blockade protests. Met with the protestors, had a dialogue about the issues (mandates) and come to a compromise conclusion. I totally agree with you there. What happened to the Trudeau who would talk to anyone at town halls. That's exactly what Melissa Lantsman asked right before Trudeau called her a nazi.
  - j_not_j 5y ago
    RCMP? They have nothing to do with enforcement in the City of Ottawa (local cops), the brief protest at Quebec City (also local cops), two brief weekend protests in Vancouver (local cops), or the multi-day border closure at Windsor (local cops). The RCMP do have enforcement duties at the Alberta border crossing and BC border crossing, both now open. Judging RCMP for the inactions of a useless Ottawa city police force is inaccurate and misleading.
- lowkey 5y ago
  It's always been the case that banks had the ability to seize funds, what is new with this Emergency Order is that banks can now seize personal funds without evidence, based purely on suspicion and without legal liability if this power is abused. Those whose assets are frozen also have no recourse through the courts or due process of any kind. The implications are chilling and are very likely to result in Canadian banks losing business and reputation/credibility.
  - ratsmack 5y ago
    And then there's Civil Forfeiture here in the US that is just a legal form of highway robbery.
BeefWellington 5y ago
Banks pretty well everywhere have long had the ability to freeze funds for a variety of offenses without due process. It's usually sold as a benefit to the consumer (it protects against fraud is the usual claim) but this isn't new. All kinds of transactions can trip automated detection systems leading to account freezes. I agree that without a court order it's shady but it's not as though this is really that new. The primary change in the legislation is pushing banks to freeze and report the accounts to the agency responsible for dealing with money laundering. Do I agree with it? Not entirely. However it's not a new thing and exists in widespread use in most of the world in one form or other.

LoveGracePeace 5y ago

When I was growing up here in the US, to me the Royal Canadian Mounted Police always had an aura of honor. Those days are gone. Civil disobedience in Canada today means you may have your money removed from your account by law enforcement unless you cave and fall in line.

sleepingadmin 5y ago
>When I was growing up here in the US, to me the Royal Canadian Mounted Police always had an aura of honor. Those days are gone. Civil disobedience in Canada today means you may have your money removed from your account by law enforcement unless you cave and fall in line. The protesters have been quite public about how well the police have treated them. The police have at least to date done nothing wrong. So I would not go to the extent to say the RCMP's honour has been harmed at all. Those days aren't gone. However, this is the problem. Since the police have not been able to end the protest because of charter rights. This forced Trudeau's hand to declare martial law, but any and all peaceful protesters whose rights are infringed will be receiving compensation as per the emergency act.
- armagon 5y ago
  > any and all peaceful protesters whose rights are infringed will be receiving compensation as per the emergency act. Interesting. This is the first I've heard of that. Discussion starts in Part V / Section 46 at https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/e-4.5/FullText.html https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/e-4.5/FullText.html
  - sleepingadmin 5y ago
    >Interesting. This is the first I've heard of that. Gotta remember, Trudeau's father declared martial law during the october crisis. There were literally bombs going off, people dying, and I will say there was an emergency then. However, after that because of human rights abuses during that martial law. They scrapped it and replaced it with the emergency act which explicitly requires the government to maintain human rights. Moreover, in the act, anything the government seizes must be returned to the people. The government doesn't get to just take your things. The politicians writing the emergency act knew that future governments exercising the emergency act will infringe upon rights. So compensation is to be expected. Now you have a problem. Any peaceful protesters can stick around and when they get arrested and removed from the area. They get nice retirement fund boosts from the government. So why would you even consider leaving if you want to leave?
- UI_at_80x24 5y ago
  >The police have at least to date done nothing wrong. The complaint this time isn't about the police using unnecessary force to brutalize the public. Our complaint is that they haven't upheld the law, and are acting like 'buddies' with the people that they are supposed to be ticketing/incarcerating. We just want the police to do their fucking job.
  - sleepingadmin 5y ago
    >The complaint this time isn't about the police using unnecessary force to brutalize the public. Our complaint is that they haven't upheld the law, and are acting like 'buddies' with the people that they are supposed to be ticketing/incarcerating. What law have they not upheld? Some microscopic municipal bylaws? Can a municipal government create bylaws to criminalize peaceful assembly? I guess I have my answer, the Ottawa police says no. >We just want the police to do their fucking job. They have been so far. Great job Ottawa police.
    - UI_at_80x24 5y ago
      >What law have they not upheld? Some microscopic municipal bylaws? After googling it for 1 second: Ontario Highway Traffic Act,R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8 at section 132 132 (1) No motor vehicle shall be driven on a highway at such a slow rate of speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic thereon except when the slow rate of speed is necessary for safe operation having regard to all the circumstances. There are more violations that apply to the truck drivers then general public too.
- mmastrac 5y ago
  The phrase "declare martial law" is 100% misinformation and I wish Americans and/or other interested worldwide observers that do not understand our Emergencies Act that was invoked would stop treating it like so.
  - sleepingadmin 5y ago
    >The phrase "declare martial law" is 100% misinformation and I wish Americans and/or other interested worldwide observers that do not understand our Emergencies Act that was invoked would stop treating it like so. Woah bud. Here's the act here. https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/e-4.5/FullText.html https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/e-4.5/FullText.html This is literally the last resort. This is a 'national emergency that cannot be effectively dealt with under any other law of Canada." Any other law. This is by definition Martial law. Martial law is the last resort. Which is why this has never ever been invoked before. Just because the ministry of truth doesn't call it martial law is irrelevant.
    - mmastrac 5y ago
      You are clearly biased and there's no possible way we can have a discussion. Enjoy your day.
      - sleepingadmin 5y ago
        >You are clearly biased and there's no possible way we can have a discussion. Enjoy your day. Sorry you feel that way. Thanks, you enjoy your day as well. Oh before you go, if you read the link I provided(section 46). The emergency act specifically disallows charter rights to be violated. So the accounts they have seized already? Under Section 6 of the Charter of unreasonable search and seizure? Ya the government will now be paying them compensation for violating their rights.
        mmastrac 5y ago
        I should have said "agenda" rather than biased, sorry. I'm very aware of our Charter, thank you very much. I recommend reading section 1 of the charter and understanding what reasonable means in the context of section 8 (not 6 as in your comment) from the Canadian legal perspective.
- JacobThreeThree 5y ago
  >This forced Trudeau's hand to declare martial law, but any and all peaceful protesters whose rights are infringed will be receiving compensation as per the emergency act. He wasn't forced to do anything, it was his choice, against the wishes of many premiers. Trudeau should have done what he did with the 2020 train blockade protests. Met with the protestors, had a dialogue about the issues (mandates) and come to a compromise conclusion.
  - sleepingadmin 5y ago
    >Trudeau should have done what he did with the 2020 train blockade protests. Met with the protestors, had a dialogue about the issues (mandates) and come to a compromise conclusion. I totally agree with you there. What happened to the Trudeau who would talk to anyone at town halls. That's exactly what Melissa Lantsman asked right before Trudeau called her a nazi.
- j_not_j 5y ago
  RCMP? They have nothing to do with enforcement in the City of Ottawa (local cops), the brief protest at Quebec City (also local cops), two brief weekend protests in Vancouver (local cops), or the multi-day border closure at Windsor (local cops). The RCMP do have enforcement duties at the Alberta border crossing and BC border crossing, both now open. Judging RCMP for the inactions of a useless Ottawa city police force is inaccurate and misleading.
lowkey 5y ago
It's always been the case that banks had the ability to seize funds, what is new with this Emergency Order is that banks can now seize personal funds without evidence, based purely on suspicion and without legal liability if this power is abused. Those whose assets are frozen also have no recourse through the courts or due process of any kind. The implications are chilling and are very likely to result in Canadian banks losing business and reputation/credibility.
- ratsmack 5y ago
  And then there's Civil Forfeiture here in the US that is just a legal form of highway robbery.

BeefWellington 5y ago

Banks pretty well everywhere have long had the ability to freeze funds for a variety of offenses without due process. It's usually sold as a benefit to the consumer (it protects against fraud is the usual claim) but this isn't new. All kinds of transactions can trip automated detection systems leading to account freezes. I agree that without a court order it's shady but it's not as though this is really that new. The primary change in the legislation is pushing banks to freeze and report the accounts to the agency responsible for dealing with money laundering. Do I agree with it? Not entirely. However it's not a new thing and exists in widespread use in most of the world in one form or other.