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Canada Sanctions 34 Crypto Wallets Tied to Trucker 'Freedom Convoy'

41 points by camjohnson26 5y ago

22c 5y ago
Sanctioning a Monero address, AFAIK, is completely frivolous. It's been a while since I played around with Monero, but from memory: sender addresses are not known in a transaction and recipient addresses are trivial to re-generate (to the point where you could opt to have a new recipient address per transaction if you wanted to).
- rosndo 5y ago
  I’m a big fan of Monero, but strongly disagree with you. If used correctly, Monero can provide strong anonymity. It is possible to use Monero to hide your activities. It is also very possible to fuck this up and end up in jail because you left a trail of evidence that reveals your attempts to launder the sanctioned Moneroj. Sanctions are never foolproof, they’re about creating an adverse environment to operate in. Sanctioning a Monero address isn’t too different from sanctioning a company operating only in Russia.
  - 22c 5y ago
    I think you missed my point. You can just create a new address in the Monero GUI with the click of a button. You don't need to transfer the funds to a new wallet. It's like putting a sanction on a burner phone or throwaway account, don't you think?
    - rosndo 5y ago
      > It's like putting a sanction on a burner phone or throwaway account, don't you think? So? That’s … normal? I suggest you read up on how sanctions work outside of cryptocurrency, all of these concerns are already addressed. Sanctioning Monero funds is useful, the people in control of the funds will need to answer questions about their origin in order to cash out. They will have to defraud banks and exchanges in order to sell their Moneroj. Monero might allow you to conceal your transactions, but that isn’t necessarily going to help too much when the people in control of the funds are known to the government.
      - 22c 5y ago
        I suggest you read how Monero works. The people in control of the funds won't need to answer any questions about the origin in order to cash out because the origin of the funds are not known to the network. When they transfer their funds to a fiat off-ramp, the source of those XMR will not be known to the fiat off-ramp, so there is no way anyone can answer any questions about their source because it's simply not known to any receiving party.
        rosndo 5y ago
        I know how Monero works. In fact, I’ve made several commits. > The people in control of the funds won't need to answer any questions about the origin in order to cash out because the origin of the funds are not known to the network You misunderstand how AML/KYC laws work.
        22c 5y ago
        I've cashed out Monero and I've also sent Monero to someone else in exchange for cash in hand. At no point did I need to reveal to any party what address I received those XMR on. There is no KYC process that I know of which asks for "the address you received your XMR on".
nisegami 5y ago
Unless these wallets have their private keys exclusively held by firm(s) that answer to Canadian law, sanctioning a few dozen crypto wallets is about the only thing less effective than thoughts and prayers.
- m348e912 5y ago
  It means that the truckers could have a hard time "cashing out the crypto" using popular offramp exchanges because their wallets will be blacklisted. The fact that the truckers have allowed Canadian government to figure out what wallet addresses are being used is the real problem here. Don't create one wallet to receive multiple donations and make it public for everyone to see.
- rosndo 5y ago
  If you think big international exchanges aren’t going to care about Canadian sanctions you’re very confused. Or banks just about anywhere. What are you gonna tell the risk management people? “Oh yeah. We’ve been sanctioned, but it’s just Canada so NABD” I just can’t even begin to imagine the train of thought here.
- LatteLazy 5y ago
  That assumes: * The wallet owners are smart enough not to have linked their IDs to their wallets (eg used the same wallet with a traceable transaction). * That wallets owners don't try to use public/centralized exchanges to cash out * That they are smart enough to use a laundry to actually fix the problem.
sleepingadmin 5y ago
How does the Canadian government know the wallet addresses? My assumption is that they are actively searching the financials of donors who transferred money to those addresses? However, on the bitcoin side, what stops you from transferring your balance to a new address that isn't on the list? So this is about as effective as an ashtray on a motorcycle?
- rosndo 5y ago
  > However, on the bitcoin side, what stops you from transferring your balance to a new address that isn't on the list? This is something people tend go to prison for. > So this is about as effective as an ashtray on a motorcycle? Nope, you just misunderstand how sanctions usually work.
  - sleepingadmin 5y ago
    >This is something people tend go to prison for. Woah, didn't expect that one. >Nope, you just misunderstand how sanctions usually work. I'm certainly missing something. My understanding is that bitcoin is specifically capable of bypassing sanctions: https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-circumvent-economic-sanctions-iran/ https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-circumvent-economic-sanctio... As has been proven in the middle east, venezuela, russia, etc. https://www.cryptoglobe.com/latest/2018/06/can-bitcoin-end-international-economic-sanctions-and-create-a-fairer-world/ https://www.cryptoglobe.com/latest/2018/06/can-bitcoin-end-i... Here's my understanding of sanctions: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/10/economic-sanctions.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/10/economic-... I'm not sure what I'm missing. Though admittedly the one link touches on something real. Without sanctions, you kind of might open up the requirement for violence.
    - baybal2 5y ago
      Yes, USA, Canada, or entite Western world sanctions only work if you have their financial infrastructure in the way. It makes 0 difference to a typical BTC cash out shop in the third world.
niknoble 5y ago
If they don't want to do anything that looks like laundering, a peer-to-peer exchange would be another easy way to convert the sanctioned bitcoins to USD.

41 points by camjohnson26 5y ago

22c 5y ago

Sanctioning a Monero address, AFAIK, is completely frivolous. It's been a while since I played around with Monero, but from memory: sender addresses are not known in a transaction and recipient addresses are trivial to re-generate (to the point where you could opt to have a new recipient address per transaction if you wanted to).

rosndo 5y ago
I’m a big fan of Monero, but strongly disagree with you. If used correctly, Monero can provide strong anonymity. It is possible to use Monero to hide your activities. It is also very possible to fuck this up and end up in jail because you left a trail of evidence that reveals your attempts to launder the sanctioned Moneroj. Sanctions are never foolproof, they’re about creating an adverse environment to operate in. Sanctioning a Monero address isn’t too different from sanctioning a company operating only in Russia.
- 22c 5y ago
  I think you missed my point. You can just create a new address in the Monero GUI with the click of a button. You don't need to transfer the funds to a new wallet. It's like putting a sanction on a burner phone or throwaway account, don't you think?
  - rosndo 5y ago
    > It's like putting a sanction on a burner phone or throwaway account, don't you think? So? That’s … normal? I suggest you read up on how sanctions work outside of cryptocurrency, all of these concerns are already addressed. Sanctioning Monero funds is useful, the people in control of the funds will need to answer questions about their origin in order to cash out. They will have to defraud banks and exchanges in order to sell their Moneroj. Monero might allow you to conceal your transactions, but that isn’t necessarily going to help too much when the people in control of the funds are known to the government.
    - 22c 5y ago
      I suggest you read how Monero works. The people in control of the funds won't need to answer any questions about the origin in order to cash out because the origin of the funds are not known to the network. When they transfer their funds to a fiat off-ramp, the source of those XMR will not be known to the fiat off-ramp, so there is no way anyone can answer any questions about their source because it's simply not known to any receiving party.
      - rosndo 5y ago
        I know how Monero works. In fact, I’ve made several commits. > The people in control of the funds won't need to answer any questions about the origin in order to cash out because the origin of the funds are not known to the network You misunderstand how AML/KYC laws work.
        22c 5y ago
        I've cashed out Monero and I've also sent Monero to someone else in exchange for cash in hand. At no point did I need to reveal to any party what address I received those XMR on. There is no KYC process that I know of which asks for "the address you received your XMR on".

nisegami 5y ago

Unless these wallets have their private keys exclusively held by firm(s) that answer to Canadian law, sanctioning a few dozen crypto wallets is about the only thing less effective than thoughts and prayers.

m348e912 5y ago
It means that the truckers could have a hard time "cashing out the crypto" using popular offramp exchanges because their wallets will be blacklisted. The fact that the truckers have allowed Canadian government to figure out what wallet addresses are being used is the real problem here. Don't create one wallet to receive multiple donations and make it public for everyone to see.
rosndo 5y ago
If you think big international exchanges aren’t going to care about Canadian sanctions you’re very confused. Or banks just about anywhere. What are you gonna tell the risk management people? “Oh yeah. We’ve been sanctioned, but it’s just Canada so NABD” I just can’t even begin to imagine the train of thought here.
LatteLazy 5y ago
That assumes: * The wallet owners are smart enough not to have linked their IDs to their wallets (eg used the same wallet with a traceable transaction). * That wallets owners don't try to use public/centralized exchanges to cash out * That they are smart enough to use a laundry to actually fix the problem.

sleepingadmin 5y ago

How does the Canadian government know the wallet addresses? My assumption is that they are actively searching the financials of donors who transferred money to those addresses? However, on the bitcoin side, what stops you from transferring your balance to a new address that isn't on the list? So this is about as effective as an ashtray on a motorcycle?

rosndo 5y ago
> However, on the bitcoin side, what stops you from transferring your balance to a new address that isn't on the list? This is something people tend go to prison for. > So this is about as effective as an ashtray on a motorcycle? Nope, you just misunderstand how sanctions usually work.
- sleepingadmin 5y ago
  >This is something people tend go to prison for. Woah, didn't expect that one. >Nope, you just misunderstand how sanctions usually work. I'm certainly missing something. My understanding is that bitcoin is specifically capable of bypassing sanctions: https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-circumvent-economic-sanctions-iran/ https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-circumvent-economic-sanctio... As has been proven in the middle east, venezuela, russia, etc. https://www.cryptoglobe.com/latest/2018/06/can-bitcoin-end-international-economic-sanctions-and-create-a-fairer-world/ https://www.cryptoglobe.com/latest/2018/06/can-bitcoin-end-i... Here's my understanding of sanctions: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/10/economic-sanctions.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/10/economic-... I'm not sure what I'm missing. Though admittedly the one link touches on something real. Without sanctions, you kind of might open up the requirement for violence.
  - baybal2 5y ago
    Yes, USA, Canada, or entite Western world sanctions only work if you have their financial infrastructure in the way. It makes 0 difference to a typical BTC cash out shop in the third world.

niknoble 5y ago

If they don't want to do anything that looks like laundering, a peer-to-peer exchange would be another easy way to convert the sanctioned bitcoins to USD.