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Reigning in copycat developers is not a bad thing for the consumer base. Have an original idea and one with more effort than what could be summarized in a youtu

Reigning in copycat developers is not a bad thing for the consumer base. Have an original idea and one with more effort than what could be summarized in a youtube tutorial and I don't see why they would reject. I don't want to discredit OP's 'hackathon' night of coding, but making a blog post because you paid the annual $100 and Apple rejects your mud that you threw at the wall hoping it would stick is why I like being an Apple user. If Apple cites copycat as a rejection, there's already likely 50 other apps just like it and the pattern of app is finally being rejected. There's still opportunity, but you need to be an 'early copycat' to make it so.

dcow 5y ago
I think the developer made a very clear case as to why they do not have a simple copycat experience. Please read the essay.
- dkonofalski 5y ago
  The developer's post assumes that those other clones won't be removed. It also assumes that every review process is exactly the same. We only know one side of the story here and it's full of assumptions and conjecture.
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    That highlights another problem with the process- the complete lack of transparency. Apple could be more forthcoming about the review process, yet they aren’t.
    - dkonofalski 5y ago
      Do they need to be? They told the developer why it wasn't allowed - it violates the Copycat clause of the ToS. At that point, the developer is just attempting to make minimal changes to differentiate it enough to bypass that restriction and then resubmitting over and over. I don't think anyone is under the illusion that this isn't a Wordle copycat. Even the author knows it.
      - Apocryphon 5y ago
        It doesn't allow the developer any actionable feedback. They could have included screenshots highlighting the exact ways this app is a copycat. What if the developer changed the UX differently- would it then no longer be a copycat? It also downplays the which the app isn't a copycat, namely that it uses a different language. As it stands, just calling something a copycat is not substantiative, you actually need to provide justification. See Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co.
        dkonofalski 5y ago
        What actionable feedback could there be? The author is copying Wordle. The very nature of the project is to copy a copyrighted application/website.
        Apocryphon 5y ago
        Is the inherent game mechanic being the same the problem, or could that be alleviated if the screens looked more distinct? And it is in a different language, after all. Are Wordle's mechanics even copyrighted?
        dkonofalski 5y ago
        Yes. Apparently, it was one of the first things the NY Times did when they purchased it. Edit: It was trademarked only. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30378491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30378491
        Apocryphon 5y ago
        In other languages as well? And then why isn't the Times DMCA'ing all of the more straightforward English Wordle clones out there right now? Based on the screenshots, it also looks like this whole app rejection process took place prior to the NYT purchase.
        5y ago
  - jonatanheyman 5y ago
    As the writer of the post, I would love to hear Apple's side of the story. The reason I didn't include more quotes from Apple was that they never cited anything other than "resembles Wordle" and "leverages Wordle" in their replies. But clearly, given that they don't apply these rules when it comes to other apps (such as Scrabble, Minesweeper, Tetris, etc.), there is something else going on.
    - dkonofalski 5y ago
      With respect, you don't know that they aren't attempting to take action on those other apps. Wordle may be a recent copyright issue since NYT has purchased the original. It seems like their rules do apply to these other apps but they just haven't gotten the attention that Wordle has so there's less bias towards those.
      - curt15 5y ago
        WHat does "attempting to take action on those other apps" mean? Apple still lists them on the app store for download.
      - jonatanheyman 5y ago
        Thankfully (IMO), you can't patent game ideas. There's no legal action NYT can take (and expect to win) to shut down any games that build on the same game rules. However, even if you disagree with me, and think that there should be no app implementing Wordle-style gameplay on App Store. What's your opinion on Minesweeper, Tetris, or Tic-tac-toe? Should no iOS versions of those games exist? Remember that Apple only ever refers to the original Wordle website in their rejections and never even acknowledges the existence of Wordle clones. What about Scrabble? If they were applying their rules consistently they would surely kick out Words With Friends, but what about Wordfeud? Should they kick out Wordfeud because Scrabble implementations already existed on the web?
  - raydev 5y ago
    A healthy and well-founded assumption given their track record of mishandling copycats in other app categories that are far more scammy and actively steal people's money.
- Humdeee 5y ago
  No, it's not a clear case. That's what the discussion is about. It's overemphasizing the differing features, and Apple seems to also think so. What you and OP think is evidently not what Apple and many other thinks. Please at least attempt to understand another perspective.
  - mrtranscendence 5y ago
    But there’s nothing illegal per se about duplicating the gameplay of Wordle. It should only be an issue when, say, assets are stolen, or if the developers use the similarity to Wordle to trick users into making in-app purchases.
    - s17n 5y ago
      Copying apps isn't illegal, but it's annoying and banning the practice seems like a good policy. I think the problem boils down to two things: 1. Apple doesn't actually have a "no copycat apps" policy, instead its an unwritten and inconsistently enforced rule 2. In this case, providing a Swedish version of the game is actually good for users and arguably should be encouraged
      - Someone 5y ago
        > Apple doesn't actually have a "no copycat apps" policy https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#copycats https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#cop...: 4.1 Copycats Come up with your own ideas. We know you have them, so make yours come to life. Don’t simply copy the latest popular app on the App Store, or make some minor changes to another app’s name or UI and pass it off as your own. In addition to risking an intellectual property infringement claim, it makes the App Store harder to navigate and just isn’t fair to your fellow developers.
        s17n 5y ago
        I stand corrected. I guess the problem for this dev was that the reviewer cited copyright, which doesn't apply here, instead of referencing the appropriate rule
mrtranscendence 5y ago
I don’t mind the App Store removing shameless copies. But games with distinct features (eg offering Swedish) and which don’t use anyone else’s intellectual property should probably not face such an uphill battle. Further, they only pay such attention to Wordle clones because they were publicly called out on it. Other clones, even ones that violate IP laws, still get a free pass. And it’s not as if they’ve stopped allowing Wordle clones in, either.
- Humdeee 5y ago
  I agree with this. I don't understand why some make it and some don't. I've said in a different comment that I believe if OP rolled the dice with a new app that didn't have copycat reject history, he has a decent chance to get it approved IMO.
- threatofrain 5y ago
  I'm not sure there's an easy solution here. I don't like copycats for more than one reason, but I don't think it's clear what criteria Apple should apply to determine whether an app is sufficiently distinct. If we considered language differences as sufficiently distinct, would that also mean allowing companies that watch for any new interesting idea and replicate it in language X?
  - jonatanheyman 5y ago
    I'd argue that the language of the dictionary is far more critical for a word game than just the UI language of a random app.
  - sleepybrett 5y ago
    Outside of wordle and other VERY POPULAR apps (a very narrow scope) it's impossible to expect that apple has a way to tell if any given submission is a copycat of anything.

dcow 5y ago

I think the developer made a very clear case as to why they do not have a simple copycat experience. Please read the essay.

dkonofalski 5y ago
The developer's post assumes that those other clones won't be removed. It also assumes that every review process is exactly the same. We only know one side of the story here and it's full of assumptions and conjecture.
- Apocryphon 5y ago
  That highlights another problem with the process- the complete lack of transparency. Apple could be more forthcoming about the review process, yet they aren’t.
  - dkonofalski 5y ago
    Do they need to be? They told the developer why it wasn't allowed - it violates the Copycat clause of the ToS. At that point, the developer is just attempting to make minimal changes to differentiate it enough to bypass that restriction and then resubmitting over and over. I don't think anyone is under the illusion that this isn't a Wordle copycat. Even the author knows it.
    - Apocryphon 5y ago
      It doesn't allow the developer any actionable feedback. They could have included screenshots highlighting the exact ways this app is a copycat. What if the developer changed the UX differently- would it then no longer be a copycat? It also downplays the which the app isn't a copycat, namely that it uses a different language. As it stands, just calling something a copycat is not substantiative, you actually need to provide justification. See Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co.
      - dkonofalski 5y ago
        What actionable feedback could there be? The author is copying Wordle. The very nature of the project is to copy a copyrighted application/website.
        Apocryphon 5y ago
        Is the inherent game mechanic being the same the problem, or could that be alleviated if the screens looked more distinct? And it is in a different language, after all. Are Wordle's mechanics even copyrighted?
        dkonofalski 5y ago
        Yes. Apparently, it was one of the first things the NY Times did when they purchased it. Edit: It was trademarked only. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30378491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30378491
        Apocryphon 5y ago
        In other languages as well? And then why isn't the Times DMCA'ing all of the more straightforward English Wordle clones out there right now? Based on the screenshots, it also looks like this whole app rejection process took place prior to the NYT purchase.
        5y ago
- jonatanheyman 5y ago
  As the writer of the post, I would love to hear Apple's side of the story. The reason I didn't include more quotes from Apple was that they never cited anything other than "resembles Wordle" and "leverages Wordle" in their replies. But clearly, given that they don't apply these rules when it comes to other apps (such as Scrabble, Minesweeper, Tetris, etc.), there is something else going on.
  - dkonofalski 5y ago
    With respect, you don't know that they aren't attempting to take action on those other apps. Wordle may be a recent copyright issue since NYT has purchased the original. It seems like their rules do apply to these other apps but they just haven't gotten the attention that Wordle has so there's less bias towards those.
    - curt15 5y ago
      WHat does "attempting to take action on those other apps" mean? Apple still lists them on the app store for download.
    - jonatanheyman 5y ago
      Thankfully (IMO), you can't patent game ideas. There's no legal action NYT can take (and expect to win) to shut down any games that build on the same game rules. However, even if you disagree with me, and think that there should be no app implementing Wordle-style gameplay on App Store. What's your opinion on Minesweeper, Tetris, or Tic-tac-toe? Should no iOS versions of those games exist? Remember that Apple only ever refers to the original Wordle website in their rejections and never even acknowledges the existence of Wordle clones. What about Scrabble? If they were applying their rules consistently they would surely kick out Words With Friends, but what about Wordfeud? Should they kick out Wordfeud because Scrabble implementations already existed on the web?
- raydev 5y ago
  A healthy and well-founded assumption given their track record of mishandling copycats in other app categories that are far more scammy and actively steal people's money.
Humdeee 5y ago
No, it's not a clear case. That's what the discussion is about. It's overemphasizing the differing features, and Apple seems to also think so. What you and OP think is evidently not what Apple and many other thinks. Please at least attempt to understand another perspective.
- mrtranscendence 5y ago
  But there’s nothing illegal per se about duplicating the gameplay of Wordle. It should only be an issue when, say, assets are stolen, or if the developers use the similarity to Wordle to trick users into making in-app purchases.
  - s17n 5y ago
    Copying apps isn't illegal, but it's annoying and banning the practice seems like a good policy. I think the problem boils down to two things: 1. Apple doesn't actually have a "no copycat apps" policy, instead its an unwritten and inconsistently enforced rule 2. In this case, providing a Swedish version of the game is actually good for users and arguably should be encouraged
    - Someone 5y ago
      > Apple doesn't actually have a "no copycat apps" policy https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#copycats https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#cop...: 4.1 Copycats Come up with your own ideas. We know you have them, so make yours come to life. Don’t simply copy the latest popular app on the App Store, or make some minor changes to another app’s name or UI and pass it off as your own. In addition to risking an intellectual property infringement claim, it makes the App Store harder to navigate and just isn’t fair to your fellow developers.
      - s17n 5y ago
        I stand corrected. I guess the problem for this dev was that the reviewer cited copyright, which doesn't apply here, instead of referencing the appropriate rule

mrtranscendence 5y ago

I don’t mind the App Store removing shameless copies. But games with distinct features (eg offering Swedish) and which don’t use anyone else’s intellectual property should probably not face such an uphill battle. Further, they only pay such attention to Wordle clones because they were publicly called out on it. Other clones, even ones that violate IP laws, still get a free pass. And it’s not as if they’ve stopped allowing Wordle clones in, either.

Humdeee 5y ago
I agree with this. I don't understand why some make it and some don't. I've said in a different comment that I believe if OP rolled the dice with a new app that didn't have copycat reject history, he has a decent chance to get it approved IMO.
threatofrain 5y ago
I'm not sure there's an easy solution here. I don't like copycats for more than one reason, but I don't think it's clear what criteria Apple should apply to determine whether an app is sufficiently distinct. If we considered language differences as sufficiently distinct, would that also mean allowing companies that watch for any new interesting idea and replicate it in language X?
- jonatanheyman 5y ago
  I'd argue that the language of the dictionary is far more critical for a word game than just the UI language of a random app.
- sleepybrett 5y ago
  Outside of wordle and other VERY POPULAR apps (a very narrow scope) it's impossible to expect that apple has a way to tell if any given submission is a copycat of anything.