6 ms·

If you think Apple is doing this because they care about you, gentle user, then you will get burned, eventually, probably really badly, and you won't even have

If you think Apple is doing this because they care about you, gentle user, then you will get burned, eventually, probably really badly, and you won't even have any kind of inkling as to why or how you could have avoided it. Behind the cutesy facade is a rapacious, consumer-hostile monster. The facade is paper-thin, and it's only a matter of time until you rub it the wrong way and it flakes off, then the monster will eat your money and anything you've entrusted to it. Apple products eat people's data, hungrily and mercilessly, then the company blames you when it loses it. It will get the world hooked on their fashionable products then make them less and less usable. Those little mini-stereo to lightning dongles are the worst-made products imaginable. Guess what you can get a mini-stereo port on? An iPod Touch. Very brave, Apple. Instead of offering developers a real userland, you get forced onto zsh because Apple would rather die than ship GPL later than v2. Don't get it twisted, Apple hates you, and loves only money. It's only a matter of time until each and every Apple user is taught that.

eldaisfish 5y ago
Comments like these are needlessly cynical. Corporations care about money else they would not have a reason to exist and apple is no exception. What apple sell is something that is accessible to the majority and usable by most. Their sales are testament to this as is the fact that several ios apps are generally higher quality than their android equivalents. This is a natural consequence of the average ios user spending more on apps. There are no two ways around that. As a counter to you headphone jack argument, i could equally make the case that many phone users care about their phones working, not much else. Apple's products are quite durable and many here will attest to using laptops from 2015-2016 and phones equally as old. The short story is that apple provide products and services that people value. Period.
- vinceguidry 5y ago
  Excuses. Please understand that these are excuses. You are accepting lower quality products and accepting nothing in return, even accepting higher prices. Apple doesn't make the iOS apps that people use and love. They just provide an increasingly crappier platform to put them on. That's what people make for Apple every single time they get burned. Apple lowers the quality of their manufacturing, people don't care. They remove features, people don't care. The reality is, people are irrational and will stay in the pot long after the frog has jumped out. With other products, with other companies, people will absolutely not accept this kind of behavior. The nation empowered Teddy Roosevelt to bring down Standard Oil. Today's robber barons have slicker marketing campaigns and PR departments and social media managers.
  - MockObject 5y ago
    My main computer is a MacBook from 2013. The battery is a bit flaky now, so I keep it plugged in, but that's some pretty heroic performance.
    - vinceguidry 5y ago
      You're making my point for me. 2013 MacBooks were great. New ones, not so much. IIRC, 2013 was around the high water mark for MacBook quality.
      - bastardoperator 5y ago
        Yeah, the M1 chip is blowing your argument out of the water. The performance and battery life are nothing short of impressive. Find me another OEM that isn't just cobbling parts together and selling it to you in a plastic shell versus actually designing an SoC/CPU.
        vinceguidry 5y ago
        It's a new processor. Great. What about the rest of the machine?
        bastardoperator 5y ago
        It's an SoC so it's definitely not just a processor. If you can't appreciate the engineering there isn't much I can say. What parts of the machine bother you the most when compared to other laptops?
        ratww 5y ago
        The rest of the machine is kind of amazing. Better audio than a 2013, WAY better microphones, great battery life, better screen than all the early Retinas, non-mechanical trackpad that lasts longer, keyboard is great again. And that's an entry-level machine, whereas an Air in 2013 wouldn't be as powerful as this. Don't be fooled, the products are great despite your personal feelings on the company.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
brightball 5y ago
Yep. I still can’t find several games that I purchased before simply because they are no longer in the App Store. There was a really solid iOS version of Final Fantasy VI/III, almost the entire catalog of games from Origin8 seems to be missing too. Would love to get them again but can’t for some reason.
- dkonofalski 5y ago
  This is more than likely because the apps were abandoned by the developer and not updated for the new hardware when iOS moved to 64-bit.
- sharkjacobs 5y ago
  > There was a really solid iOS version of Final Fantasy VI/III Square stopped selling those in anticipation of upcoming remastered versions, but if you already bought them you can still download and install them, you can find them in "Purchased" in the App Store
  - brightball 5y ago
    Thanks for the tip
pmarreck 5y ago
Alright, I have to respond to this. > Instead of offering developers a real userland, you get forced onto zsh because Apple would rather die than ship GPL later than v2. export BASH_SILENCE_DEPRECATION_WARNING=1 brew install bash # if homebrew is installed chsh `which bash` # if homebrew is configured correctly Done. I've been running without zsh just fine. oh-my-bash even exists! https://github.com/ohmybash/oh-my-bash https://github.com/ohmybash/oh-my-bash > Don't get it twisted, Apple hates you, and loves only money. It's only a matter of time until each and every Apple user is taught that. No. Quod grātīs asseritur, grātīs negātur.
- Steltek 5y ago
  Homebrew is not Apple so you're just reinforcing OP's point: you need to go to a 3rd party to get a CLI that's worth a damn. Nor is Homebrew supported by Apple which is totally outrageous, given that without it, you might as well buy an iPad for how useful MacOS is.
  - bastardoperator 5y ago
    And yum, dnf, dpkg, apt, pacman, emerge, zypper are not Linux. Like brew they repackage software. Let's also not pretend that in the world of Linux I haven't had to add a 3rd party repo to get something working or look to community repos or even enable testing/unstable branches assuming I can get what I want working to work. There are trade offs everywhere. Considering it takes an entire second to add brew to a machine, it's not a big deal or what I would hang my argument on. I've spent much more time messing with packages in Linux versus troubleshooting brew. I disagree it reinforces anything. I'm using a lot of rust tools on my CLI today and they're all available via brew, on Linux not always because the developer isn't targeting all of the different Linux package managers.
    - Steltek 5y ago
      You're classing essentially nonprofit Linux community efforts as "3rd party" then you're comparing it to one of the flagship products of one of the largest tech companies in the world. Are you even listening to yourself? This is absurd.
ryandrake 5y ago
Nowhere in OP's comment did they imply that Apple provides the App Store out of the goodness of their hearts. Obviously they do it to make money, like every other corporation. They have clearly sat down and said "We think building this 'walled garden' will make us more money." No debate there. Why does it make them money? It makes them money because a lot of end users are like OP, prefer the 'walled garden,' and are willing to spend their money there. You can argue that they are wrong to like it, but that kind of argument tends to go nowhere on the Internet.
- vinceguidry 5y ago
  And they're going to get burned. Each and every one of them. And when they do, they'll make excuses. Other companies that burn them, they won't make excuses for. Apple, they will.
bastardoperator 5y ago
I feel like you hate Apple more than Apple hates me. Your boogieman analogy is over the top or laughable. Also: bash --version GNU bash, version 5.1.16(1)-release (x86_64-apple-darwin21.1.0)
- mistersquid 5y ago
  You may be running non-standard bash. In macOS Monterey 12.2.1: ┍ … Thu Feb 17 09:09:44[~] ┕ which bash /bin/bash ┍ … Thu Feb 17 09:10:25[~] ┕ bash --version GNU bash, version 3.2.57(1)-release (x86_64-apple-darwin21) Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
  - bastardoperator 5y ago
    I absolutely do. I want some parity with Linux so I also install gnu coreutils via brew and alias with bashrc. which bash /usr/local/bin/bash which ls /usr/local/opt/coreutils/libexec/gnubin/ls
    - vinceguidry 5y ago
      Or, hear me out here, maybe just run Linux. Your life can be very simple and easy without having your system subjected to Apple's caprice. Imagine it, a system that you, and only you, control.
      - bastardoperator 5y ago
        I run both, on top of FreeBSD and Windows. Being an OS zealot isn't what pays my bills.
theshrike79 5y ago
Apple actively doesn't want to know anything about me. I pay Apple a lot of money because of this. Our incentives match. Apple gets the money they love. I get devices that actively work against third party tracking.
philosopher1234 5y ago
This seems light on facts and heavy on fear. I also disagree that removing the head phone jack is user hostile.
Turing_Machine 5y ago
> Apple would rather die than ship GPL later than v2. So would I, so I'm not about to blame them for that.

eldaisfish 5y ago

Comments like these are needlessly cynical. Corporations care about money else they would not have a reason to exist and apple is no exception. What apple sell is something that is accessible to the majority and usable by most. Their sales are testament to this as is the fact that several ios apps are generally higher quality than their android equivalents. This is a natural consequence of the average ios user spending more on apps. There are no two ways around that. As a counter to you headphone jack argument, i could equally make the case that many phone users care about their phones working, not much else. Apple's products are quite durable and many here will attest to using laptops from 2015-2016 and phones equally as old. The short story is that apple provide products and services that people value. Period.

vinceguidry 5y ago
Excuses. Please understand that these are excuses. You are accepting lower quality products and accepting nothing in return, even accepting higher prices. Apple doesn't make the iOS apps that people use and love. They just provide an increasingly crappier platform to put them on. That's what people make for Apple every single time they get burned. Apple lowers the quality of their manufacturing, people don't care. They remove features, people don't care. The reality is, people are irrational and will stay in the pot long after the frog has jumped out. With other products, with other companies, people will absolutely not accept this kind of behavior. The nation empowered Teddy Roosevelt to bring down Standard Oil. Today's robber barons have slicker marketing campaigns and PR departments and social media managers.
- MockObject 5y ago
  My main computer is a MacBook from 2013. The battery is a bit flaky now, so I keep it plugged in, but that's some pretty heroic performance.
  - vinceguidry 5y ago
    You're making my point for me. 2013 MacBooks were great. New ones, not so much. IIRC, 2013 was around the high water mark for MacBook quality.
    - bastardoperator 5y ago
      Yeah, the M1 chip is blowing your argument out of the water. The performance and battery life are nothing short of impressive. Find me another OEM that isn't just cobbling parts together and selling it to you in a plastic shell versus actually designing an SoC/CPU.
      - vinceguidry 5y ago
        It's a new processor. Great. What about the rest of the machine?
        bastardoperator 5y ago
        It's an SoC so it's definitely not just a processor. If you can't appreciate the engineering there isn't much I can say. What parts of the machine bother you the most when compared to other laptops?
        ratww 5y ago
        The rest of the machine is kind of amazing. Better audio than a 2013, WAY better microphones, great battery life, better screen than all the early Retinas, non-mechanical trackpad that lasts longer, keyboard is great again. And that's an entry-level machine, whereas an Air in 2013 wouldn't be as powerful as this. Don't be fooled, the products are great despite your personal feelings on the company.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

brightball 5y ago

Yep. I still can’t find several games that I purchased before simply because they are no longer in the App Store. There was a really solid iOS version of Final Fantasy VI/III, almost the entire catalog of games from Origin8 seems to be missing too. Would love to get them again but can’t for some reason.

dkonofalski 5y ago
This is more than likely because the apps were abandoned by the developer and not updated for the new hardware when iOS moved to 64-bit.
sharkjacobs 5y ago
> There was a really solid iOS version of Final Fantasy VI/III Square stopped selling those in anticipation of upcoming remastered versions, but if you already bought them you can still download and install them, you can find them in "Purchased" in the App Store
- brightball 5y ago
  Thanks for the tip

pmarreck 5y ago

Alright, I have to respond to this. > Instead of offering developers a real userland, you get forced onto zsh because Apple would rather die than ship GPL later than v2. export BASH_SILENCE_DEPRECATION_WARNING=1 brew install bash # if homebrew is installed chsh `which bash` # if homebrew is configured correctly Done. I've been running without zsh just fine. oh-my-bash even exists! https://github.com/ohmybash/oh-my-bash https://github.com/ohmybash/oh-my-bash > Don't get it twisted, Apple hates you, and loves only money. It's only a matter of time until each and every Apple user is taught that. No. Quod grātīs asseritur, grātīs negātur.

Steltek 5y ago
Homebrew is not Apple so you're just reinforcing OP's point: you need to go to a 3rd party to get a CLI that's worth a damn. Nor is Homebrew supported by Apple which is totally outrageous, given that without it, you might as well buy an iPad for how useful MacOS is.
- bastardoperator 5y ago
  And yum, dnf, dpkg, apt, pacman, emerge, zypper are not Linux. Like brew they repackage software. Let's also not pretend that in the world of Linux I haven't had to add a 3rd party repo to get something working or look to community repos or even enable testing/unstable branches assuming I can get what I want working to work. There are trade offs everywhere. Considering it takes an entire second to add brew to a machine, it's not a big deal or what I would hang my argument on. I've spent much more time messing with packages in Linux versus troubleshooting brew. I disagree it reinforces anything. I'm using a lot of rust tools on my CLI today and they're all available via brew, on Linux not always because the developer isn't targeting all of the different Linux package managers.
  - Steltek 5y ago
    You're classing essentially nonprofit Linux community efforts as "3rd party" then you're comparing it to one of the flagship products of one of the largest tech companies in the world. Are you even listening to yourself? This is absurd.

ryandrake 5y ago

Nowhere in OP's comment did they imply that Apple provides the App Store out of the goodness of their hearts. Obviously they do it to make money, like every other corporation. They have clearly sat down and said "We think building this 'walled garden' will make us more money." No debate there. Why does it make them money? It makes them money because a lot of end users are like OP, prefer the 'walled garden,' and are willing to spend their money there. You can argue that they are wrong to like it, but that kind of argument tends to go nowhere on the Internet.

vinceguidry 5y ago
And they're going to get burned. Each and every one of them. And when they do, they'll make excuses. Other companies that burn them, they won't make excuses for. Apple, they will.

bastardoperator 5y ago

I feel like you hate Apple more than Apple hates me. Your boogieman analogy is over the top or laughable. Also: bash --version GNU bash, version 5.1.16(1)-release (x86_64-apple-darwin21.1.0)

mistersquid 5y ago
You may be running non-standard bash. In macOS Monterey 12.2.1: ┍ … Thu Feb 17 09:09:44[~] ┕ which bash /bin/bash ┍ … Thu Feb 17 09:10:25[~] ┕ bash --version GNU bash, version 3.2.57(1)-release (x86_64-apple-darwin21) Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
- bastardoperator 5y ago
  I absolutely do. I want some parity with Linux so I also install gnu coreutils via brew and alias with bashrc. which bash /usr/local/bin/bash which ls /usr/local/opt/coreutils/libexec/gnubin/ls
  - vinceguidry 5y ago
    Or, hear me out here, maybe just run Linux. Your life can be very simple and easy without having your system subjected to Apple's caprice. Imagine it, a system that you, and only you, control.
    - bastardoperator 5y ago
      I run both, on top of FreeBSD and Windows. Being an OS zealot isn't what pays my bills.

theshrike79 5y ago

Apple actively doesn't want to know anything about me. I pay Apple a lot of money because of this. Our incentives match. Apple gets the money they love. I get devices that actively work against third party tracking.

philosopher1234 5y ago

This seems light on facts and heavy on fear. I also disagree that removing the head phone jack is user hostile.

Turing_Machine 5y ago

> Apple would rather die than ship GPL later than v2. So would I, so I'm not about to blame them for that.