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Netherland used to give students a small monthly stipend instead of a loan. In the 1990s, they changed it to a loan, but now talks are that that was a bad move,

by mcv 5y ago

Netherland used to give students a small monthly stipend instead of a loan. In the 1990s, they changed it to a loan, but now talks are that that was a bad move, and it should go back to being a stipend. Free or cheap education seems to be a far better idea than enormous loans to pay for overpriced for-profit colleges. Education is not just about earnings potential; it's also an investment in society as a whole. A society with a well-educated population is better off than one without. Although expensive education that doesn't provide any job prospects is kinda pointless, and those definitely do exist.

rayiner 5y ago
> Education is not just about earnings potential; it's also an investment in society as a whole. A society with a well-educated population is better off than one without. Citation needed. The prosperous America you live in was built by generations where the vast majority of people hadn't gone to college. When Intel was founded in 1968, only about 10% of the population had four or more years of post-high school education. When Apple was founded in 1976, that number was still under 15%. Since then it seems we've hit diminishing returns. 35% of the population has a college degree, but that just means your receptionist has a college degree, where previously they would have been a high school graduate. Waiters and bartenders are more likely to have a bachelors degree today (about 15%) than the general population was back when Intel was founded. Does that make us better off?
- bradlys 5y ago
  We’ve also not become a nation of manufacturing. What’s your point, dude?
  - rayiner 5y ago
    The jobs of the future never materialized. Receptionists are doing the same thing they always did. People use more computers now, but literally children can use computers. I’d even argue that our service-oriented economy requires even less education and intellectual horsepower than the manufacturing and construction oriented economy of the past. I strongly suspect our economy would continue to run fine if half the people who go to college now never went (and we banned the practice of requiring college degrees as a threshold filter for people who have their shit minimally together).
etempleton 5y ago
Most For-Profit schools in the US are relatively cheap. They are also just complete crap and lure people in with false promises and are often unaccredited. People quickly learn they are complete crap and perception is reality so the degree becomes worthless when looking for a job. The actual price paid of four year colleges has been dropping even as the sticker price has going up in the US. The discount rate is at an all time high. Almost every student gets some kind of tuition discount. If you want to save money going to college in the United States either get a scholarship (if you can) or go to two years of community college in-state, get good grades, and then transfer to the best in-state school with the program you want to major in. You will earn a four year degree for a reasonable price.

by mcv 5y ago

rayiner 5y ago

> Education is not just about earnings potential; it's also an investment in society as a whole. A society with a well-educated population is better off than one without. Citation needed. The prosperous America you live in was built by generations where the vast majority of people hadn't gone to college. When Intel was founded in 1968, only about 10% of the population had four or more years of post-high school education. When Apple was founded in 1976, that number was still under 15%. Since then it seems we've hit diminishing returns. 35% of the population has a college degree, but that just means your receptionist has a college degree, where previously they would have been a high school graduate. Waiters and bartenders are more likely to have a bachelors degree today (about 15%) than the general population was back when Intel was founded. Does that make us better off?

bradlys 5y ago
We’ve also not become a nation of manufacturing. What’s your point, dude?
- rayiner 5y ago
  The jobs of the future never materialized. Receptionists are doing the same thing they always did. People use more computers now, but literally children can use computers. I’d even argue that our service-oriented economy requires even less education and intellectual horsepower than the manufacturing and construction oriented economy of the past. I strongly suspect our economy would continue to run fine if half the people who go to college now never went (and we banned the practice of requiring college degrees as a threshold filter for people who have their shit minimally together).

etempleton 5y ago

Most For-Profit schools in the US are relatively cheap. They are also just complete crap and lure people in with false promises and are often unaccredited. People quickly learn they are complete crap and perception is reality so the degree becomes worthless when looking for a job. The actual price paid of four year colleges has been dropping even as the sticker price has going up in the US. The discount rate is at an all time high. Almost every student gets some kind of tuition discount. If you want to save money going to college in the United States either get a scholarship (if you can) or go to two years of community college in-state, get good grades, and then transfer to the best in-state school with the program you want to major in. You will earn a four year degree for a reasonable price.