3 ms·

> I'd even pay more for one knowing it was made in the US. How much? Serious question, just curious.

jrockway 15y ago
I can answer that. I recently wanted to replace the brakes on my commuting bike. I narrowed it down to two possible makes; Paul or Avid. Paul is a tiny company based in California, Avid is a brand of SRAM (one of the "big three" bicycle components manufacturers). Paul's brakes cost $110 per wheel (for the polished aluminum). Avid's cost $88 per wheel (on Amazon, but list for $110) and aren't polished. (I am not 100% sure that SRAM outsources to China, but I'm sure they move many many more units than Paul.) Another example is Shimano freewheels vs. White Industries freewheels. Shimano makes fine equipment, but the White Industries freewheels are much better built and have proven to be much more durable. The price difference is something like $20 for the made-in-southeast-asia Shimano part, and $80 for the made-in-the-USA White Industries part. So, people will pay for quality, and there's only going to be a big price difference if you make billions of widgets per year. If nobody even competes with you and you aren't making enough units to justify buying your own CNC milling setup, I can't imagine why you would deal with the hassle of China. (Once I get tired of programming I think I am going to make bike parts, so I always read these manufacturing articles with interest.)
- nl 15y ago
  (This aside it too interesting to leave...) Cycling is a fascinating industry. I've done quite a lot of research into it (mostly on the framebuilding side). These days the vast majority of non-custom (and especially carbon fibre) frames are made in China & Taiwan. Many smaller manufactures actually collaborate with a factory on a frame design, and the factory usually ends up owning the design. In a few cases larger manufactures screw up the process as well. For example, Bianchi famously got a Chinese factory to manufacture one of their high-end framesets but neglected to manage the IP properly and ended up in a situation where the Chinese factory owned the frame moulds and the rights to use them after 1 year (or 2 years?). Now you can buy fake Bianchi frames on ebay, but ironically they are actually legally produced (although branding them as Bianchis isn't legal).
  - jrockway 15y ago
    Interesting. I wonder if the Chinese factory is as careful about quality control with their own brand as they are with Bianchi's frames? I'd personally feel safer with a well-known brand frame because of the potential for carbon fiber to fail in strange ways.
    - nl 15y ago
      Generally, anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that the frames are pretty good. Usually they seem to be slightly heavier than top-of-the-line brand name frames, mostly because of the grade of carbon fibre. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-frames-forks/chinese-carbon-thread-ebay-direct-version-5-0-a-241785.html http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-frames-forks/chinese-... and http://cheapcarbonframes.com/ http://cheapcarbonframes.com/ seem to have the most information. I've heard a few bad stories about Chinese titanium frames though (but titanium is always going to be more variable than carbon fibre because it is hand welded).
jrockway 15y ago
Sorry to reply twice, but I reread the Kickstarter page and discovered that people are paying $50 for these things. I'm pretty sure that one could afford to have these things made in the US and still turn a massive profit. Even if you pay someone $100 an hour to will these things into existence, I'm pretty sure you'll still come out ahead. $50 for a block of aluminum that you put a pen cartridge into. Wow.
- mietek 15y ago
  The list price is actually $100 for a block of steel: http://shop.cwandt.com/ http://shop.cwandt.com/

I can answer that. I recently wanted to replace the brakes on my commuting bike. I narrowed it down to two possible makes; Paul or Avid. Paul is a tiny company based in California, Avid is a brand of SRAM (one of the "big three" bicycle components manufacturers). Paul's brakes cost $110 per wheel (for the polished aluminum). Avid's cost $88 per wheel (on Amazon, but list for $110) and aren't polished. (I am not 100% sure that SRAM outsources to China, but I'm sure they move many many more units than Paul.) Another example is Shimano freewheels vs. White Industries freewheels. Shimano makes fine equipment, but the White Industries freewheels are much better built and have proven to be much more durable. The price difference is something like $20 for the made-in-southeast-asia Shimano part, and $80 for the made-in-the-USA White Industries part. So, people will pay for quality, and there's only going to be a big price difference if you make billions of widgets per year. If nobody even competes with you and you aren't making enough units to justify buying your own CNC milling setup, I can't imagine why you would deal with the hassle of China. (Once I get tired of programming I think I am going to make bike parts, so I always read these manufacturing articles with interest.)

nl 15y ago
(This aside it too interesting to leave...) Cycling is a fascinating industry. I've done quite a lot of research into it (mostly on the framebuilding side). These days the vast majority of non-custom (and especially carbon fibre) frames are made in China & Taiwan. Many smaller manufactures actually collaborate with a factory on a frame design, and the factory usually ends up owning the design. In a few cases larger manufactures screw up the process as well. For example, Bianchi famously got a Chinese factory to manufacture one of their high-end framesets but neglected to manage the IP properly and ended up in a situation where the Chinese factory owned the frame moulds and the rights to use them after 1 year (or 2 years?). Now you can buy fake Bianchi frames on ebay, but ironically they are actually legally produced (although branding them as Bianchis isn't legal).
- jrockway 15y ago
  Interesting. I wonder if the Chinese factory is as careful about quality control with their own brand as they are with Bianchi's frames? I'd personally feel safer with a well-known brand frame because of the potential for carbon fiber to fail in strange ways.
  - nl 15y ago
    Generally, anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that the frames are pretty good. Usually they seem to be slightly heavier than top-of-the-line brand name frames, mostly because of the grade of carbon fibre. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-frames-forks/chinese-carbon-thread-ebay-direct-version-5-0-a-241785.html http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-frames-forks/chinese-... and http://cheapcarbonframes.com/ http://cheapcarbonframes.com/ seem to have the most information. I've heard a few bad stories about Chinese titanium frames though (but titanium is always going to be more variable than carbon fibre because it is hand welded).

jrockway 15y ago

Sorry to reply twice, but I reread the Kickstarter page and discovered that people are paying $50 for these things. I'm pretty sure that one could afford to have these things made in the US and still turn a massive profit. Even if you pay someone $100 an hour to will these things into existence, I'm pretty sure you'll still come out ahead. $50 for a block of aluminum that you put a pen cartridge into. Wow.

mietek 15y ago
The list price is actually $100 for a block of steel: http://shop.cwandt.com/ http://shop.cwandt.com/