5 ms·

I think claiming that "we are a family" is actually the toxic one. It's incredibly dishonest to claim that. No one gets fired from a family because the family i

by papito 5y ago

I think claiming that "we are a family" is actually the toxic one. It's incredibly dishonest to claim that. No one gets fired from a family because the family is "right-sizing".

technion 5y ago
Even before I had a job, reading "we are like family" in advertisements just left me thinking of "well you walk out on a family at 5pm just because the event ended then".
- aksss 5y ago
  The ol' "Irish Goodbye". Big fan.
petepete 5y ago
"we're a family but if you don't do well enough gtfo"
- nickpeterson 5y ago
  It is like a family, just more like the family from Succession…
ido 5y ago
I don't think that's the part OP was speaking against.
rightbyte 5y ago
It is a platitude, not toxic. Being a "pro sportsteam" on the other hand could be considered toxic. I know of no more cut throat legal business than sports. They are aggressivly signaling that they push KPI missers out.
- logifail 5y ago
  Q: Is wanting to succeed considered a bad thing?
  - rightbyte 5y ago
    If we are talking NHL level exceptations at my dayjob, ye, it is a bad thing. Especially as there are no way of rating programmers as fairly as sportsmen.
    - jasonladuke0311 5y ago
      > Especially as there are no way of rating programmers as fairly as sportsmen. Oh boy, I guess you don’t follow sports too closely. There is endless debate about rankings and player value and statistics. But I am digressing.
    - l33t2328 5y ago
      > If we are talking NHL level exceptations at my dayjob, ye, it is a bad thing I would love to work in an extremely competitive environment where slackers are punished.
- ivan_gammel 5y ago
  Systematic KPI missers must leave in any company: it is hard to understand why it could be otherwise, if you are not living in North Korea or Cuba. People who make one honest mistake or have a bad quarter due to family issues but otherwise are great performers fit in their culture, they explicitly mention that in slides.
  - rightbyte 5y ago
    They write that "we cut smartly to have stars in every position". That is dellusional. Probably works well in NHL when you draft each year anyway and players do the same thing, like dentists. My belief is that continuation is way more important than stars. Especially since recruiting (and not fireing) stars is a more or less random process anyway. I imply unreasonable KPIs. Also, "right to work" has more in common with North Korean job safety (i.e. none) than say Spannish dito.
    - ivan_gammel 5y ago
      They explain in detail what does this mean in presentation.
  - cvlasdkv 5y ago
- nonameiguess 5y ago
  This isn't exactly true. Other than NFL, American pro sports have pretty strong unions, and even if you get cut, you still get paid. You might even get paid more, even though you're not working. Netflix doesn't give out guaranteed contracts that continue to pay you even after you get fired.
  - rightbyte 5y ago
    Oh didn't know that interesting. I just assumed it was like corporate US, but a bit "more" due to the competitive nature. I guess Netflix choose the wrong analogy then with all their sports metaphors. Reading the whole slide back to back, I am a bit disgusted. It is so smug. It is trying to be brutally honest, but it feels more like a cult pep-talk. The place like doubled it workforce in four years -- there is not way to be elite after that, even if they were before ...
bluedino 5y ago
Some families get together to have an intervention for their alcoholic brother and cut him off.
- papito 5y ago
  That takes years of building up until that happens.
- BirAdam 5y ago
  Eh. That doesn’t really work though. An alcoholic (any addict) has to _want_ to change. The individual must make the choice. Nothing else will work long term. Often enough, addicts die due to some effect of the addiction, or commit suicide when they cannot live with some effect. I find that people often make poor judgement when confronting addicts. Every addict is an individual first, and while the route of their addiction may look similar to others it is never identical. Some addicts respond well to interventions. The intervention can convince some of the need to change. For other addicts, this only further entrenches the addiction due to some emotional response. This is especially true, in my experience, when the family was the source of the abuse that caused the depression that ultimately drove the addict to some substance for relief. The “cut off” rather than the intervention would (in some cases) be truly more humane. Some families operate on different philosophies and they would argue that to be of service to family no matter the cost is first. While laudable, I would disagree. Source: I come from a family with many addicts: two uncles, sister, brother, father, mother, grandfather, grandmother, cousin, great uncle, great aunt, three aunts, myself.
nsxwolf 5y ago
If you've ever been part of a family business, you'd know the approach to handling things is quite a bit different. When family dynamics come into play, you end up having to tolerate things and compromise things in ways that would be considered unacceptable in a corporation. You find out your brother is pocketing part of the tips that are supposed to go to the back of the house. Your son has been accused of sexual harassment by one of the waitresses. What do you do? You're not going to "take it to HR". Any action you take here is going to be painful and is going to be challenged by other members of the family with an equal stake. So I immediately recoil when I hear that I'm "family". Oh, you're going to look the other way when I get caught embezzling? We'll work something out when I get caught the second time? Didn't think so.

by papito 5y ago

I think claiming that "we are a family" is actually the toxic one. It's incredibly dishonest to claim that. No one gets fired from a family because the family is "right-sizing".

technion 5y ago

Even before I had a job, reading "we are like family" in advertisements just left me thinking of "well you walk out on a family at 5pm just because the event ended then".

aksss 5y ago
The ol' "Irish Goodbye". Big fan.

petepete 5y ago

"we're a family but if you don't do well enough gtfo"

nickpeterson 5y ago
It is like a family, just more like the family from Succession…

ido 5y ago

I don't think that's the part OP was speaking against.

rightbyte 5y ago

It is a platitude, not toxic. Being a "pro sportsteam" on the other hand could be considered toxic. I know of no more cut throat legal business than sports. They are aggressivly signaling that they push KPI missers out.

logifail 5y ago
Q: Is wanting to succeed considered a bad thing?
- rightbyte 5y ago
  If we are talking NHL level exceptations at my dayjob, ye, it is a bad thing. Especially as there are no way of rating programmers as fairly as sportsmen.
  - jasonladuke0311 5y ago
    > Especially as there are no way of rating programmers as fairly as sportsmen. Oh boy, I guess you don’t follow sports too closely. There is endless debate about rankings and player value and statistics. But I am digressing.
  - l33t2328 5y ago
    > If we are talking NHL level exceptations at my dayjob, ye, it is a bad thing I would love to work in an extremely competitive environment where slackers are punished.
ivan_gammel 5y ago
Systematic KPI missers must leave in any company: it is hard to understand why it could be otherwise, if you are not living in North Korea or Cuba. People who make one honest mistake or have a bad quarter due to family issues but otherwise are great performers fit in their culture, they explicitly mention that in slides.
- rightbyte 5y ago
  They write that "we cut smartly to have stars in every position". That is dellusional. Probably works well in NHL when you draft each year anyway and players do the same thing, like dentists. My belief is that continuation is way more important than stars. Especially since recruiting (and not fireing) stars is a more or less random process anyway. I imply unreasonable KPIs. Also, "right to work" has more in common with North Korean job safety (i.e. none) than say Spannish dito.
  - ivan_gammel 5y ago
    They explain in detail what does this mean in presentation.
- cvlasdkv 5y ago
nonameiguess 5y ago
This isn't exactly true. Other than NFL, American pro sports have pretty strong unions, and even if you get cut, you still get paid. You might even get paid more, even though you're not working. Netflix doesn't give out guaranteed contracts that continue to pay you even after you get fired.
- rightbyte 5y ago
  Oh didn't know that interesting. I just assumed it was like corporate US, but a bit "more" due to the competitive nature. I guess Netflix choose the wrong analogy then with all their sports metaphors. Reading the whole slide back to back, I am a bit disgusted. It is so smug. It is trying to be brutally honest, but it feels more like a cult pep-talk. The place like doubled it workforce in four years -- there is not way to be elite after that, even if they were before ...

bluedino 5y ago

Some families get together to have an intervention for their alcoholic brother and cut him off.

papito 5y ago
That takes years of building up until that happens.
BirAdam 5y ago
Eh. That doesn’t really work though. An alcoholic (any addict) has to _want_ to change. The individual must make the choice. Nothing else will work long term. Often enough, addicts die due to some effect of the addiction, or commit suicide when they cannot live with some effect. I find that people often make poor judgement when confronting addicts. Every addict is an individual first, and while the route of their addiction may look similar to others it is never identical. Some addicts respond well to interventions. The intervention can convince some of the need to change. For other addicts, this only further entrenches the addiction due to some emotional response. This is especially true, in my experience, when the family was the source of the abuse that caused the depression that ultimately drove the addict to some substance for relief. The “cut off” rather than the intervention would (in some cases) be truly more humane. Some families operate on different philosophies and they would argue that to be of service to family no matter the cost is first. While laudable, I would disagree. Source: I come from a family with many addicts: two uncles, sister, brother, father, mother, grandfather, grandmother, cousin, great uncle, great aunt, three aunts, myself.

nsxwolf 5y ago

If you've ever been part of a family business, you'd know the approach to handling things is quite a bit different. When family dynamics come into play, you end up having to tolerate things and compromise things in ways that would be considered unacceptable in a corporation. You find out your brother is pocketing part of the tips that are supposed to go to the back of the house. Your son has been accused of sexual harassment by one of the waitresses. What do you do? You're not going to "take it to HR". Any action you take here is going to be painful and is going to be challenged by other members of the family with an equal stake. So I immediately recoil when I hear that I'm "family". Oh, you're going to look the other way when I get caught embezzling? We'll work something out when I get caught the second time? Didn't think so.