5 ms·

> I’d still prefer a targeted ad over a random ad that is unrelated to me. No, a million times no. A targeted ad requires my personal information being collect

by sasaf5 5y ago

> I’d still prefer a targeted ad over a random ad that is unrelated to me. No, a million times no. A targeted ad requires my personal information being collected, and the resulting assumption of my needs may be offensive and even dangerous. I prefer a random ad. Or better, a place where I can just search the product I want in detail.

topicseed 5y ago
A targeted ad can be a contextual ad, with no personal information involved.
yakubin 5y ago
"Random ad vs targeted ad" is a false dichotomy. There are also contextual ads. For example, the audience of Linus Tech Tips regularly gets their fair share of contextual ads delivered by Linus in-band. You're not going to see an ad of a toilet paper on LTT. Instead you're going to see ads of hard drives, Squarespace, online shopping platforms, etc. The ads are the same for all viewers (i.e. definitely not targeted) and don't require any JS spyware. Moreover, LTT (and other creators) get more money from those ads than from YouTube ads. Everybody wins (except Google and Facebook).
- JSavageOne 5y ago
  Everyone wins except the viewer who now has to manually skip through ads because adblockers don't block those type of ads
  - finger 5y ago
    SponsorBlock might be of interest. > Skip sponsorships, subscription begging and more on YouTube videos. Report sponsors on videos you watch to save others' time. [0] [0]: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/sponsorblock-for-youtube/mnjggcdmjocbbbhaepdhchncahnbgone?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/sponsorblock-for-y...
    - s8s8discourse 5y ago
      how do you expect the producers of the content you consume to continue putting out the content you want to consume if they're unable to monetise that content?
      - hhmc 5y ago
        I think the honest answer is that one expects to be in the minority that uses adblock -- and for the content to be monetized by the majority that don't.
        Monotoko 5y ago
        I'm in a restrictive country that's extremely difficult to get stuff to, I don't have the standard payment methods and instead all these internal only services. There is absolutely no point in me watching those because I couldn't buy anything even if I wanted to
      - lpcvoid 5y ago
        Behind a privacy respecting paywall if they want. Let the market decide if their content is worth some dollar amount. Advertisement is never the answer, IMO.
      - Decabytes 5y ago
        Seriously. I don't get why people expect that they should pay nothing to watch their favorite content creators. Sure you bought an LTT water bottle, but make no mistake Google is a business, YouTube is a business and they are not providing these videos out of the goodness of their heart. If YouTube ever doesn't make sense (algorithmically, financially, or through whatever metric Google decides is important) Google will cut it.
        lentil_soup 5y ago
        I don't think people expect anything for free but I don't want to pay with getting bombarded with ads. If their business model is not viable then they have to find a new one. Just as we can't expect content for free they can't expect me to sit there and look at adverts out of the goodness of my heart. If at all possible, I will find a way to block ads out of my mind as much as I can.
  - dspillett 5y ago
    I don't mind sponsor slots - they directly pay the content creators and don't involved me to be stalked as I go about my life. If the sponsored segments get irritating, and in some cases they have, I just go elsewhere. If I don't want the content enough to put of with the sponsor segment then I simply don't want the content enough.
INTPenis 5y ago
Yeah totally, that statement is actually absurd to me. Because ANY ad is equally off putting. But a targeted ad is based on personal information. Regardless of how the ad was made, I will do anything to avoid it, just as I would any other ad.
ColinHayhurst 5y ago
Ads are not the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem is tracking. The internet has not been broken by ads. It’s been broken by data harvesting and monopolies. Contextual ads are no problem IMO, and can sometimes be a helpful (economic) signal. Without ads how can challengers get some awareness? So yes for targeted ads, but only if it does not require personal data. Contextual ads can be targeted without engaging in use of personal data.
- bbbobbb 5y ago
  I hope you realize this is just your perspective. To offer the alternative, to me ads are the fundamental problem. As much as I don't want to be tracked and avoid providing my information in any way possible, I just assume I am being tracked. It does not "annoy me" while consuming some content. On the other hand, any random ad / paid promotion that gets through the blocking does annoy me immensely and I do consider nearly any form of advertisement harmful.
  - ColinHayhurst 5y ago
    Sure I realize. I'm not alone in this thinking but reaslize I am out-on-a-limb. I totally understand your point-of-view; it was how I thought for most of my life. Perhaps it was my shift from being mostly developer and one-company focussed to later helping and/or working with or alongside hundreds of startups, including YC S12. Without ads to gain awareness and gow many now great companies would not have crossed the chasm. And we all benefit from those companies, from innovations that flourished, and use them in our toolset. Sadly a few of them acheived their own, or backers, goal of being a monopoly, leading to the annoyance, damage and extraction we all experience.
afiori 5y ago
Personalizing ads per se does not need tracking or profiling. Doing it server-side and checking if the targeting works does. the Mr Robot scandal for better or worse, was implemented almost like this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15941302 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15941302
dspillett 5y ago
It depends how you define targetted. An advert for Intel while I'm looking at a technical site is targetted in the traditional sense, like advertising sports equipment and beer in TV broadcasts of football (where the audience is likely to be interested in one, the other, or both), and I'm fine with that. Like you I object to adverts that are targetted by stalking me as I go about my daily life, or buying & selling information gleaned about me by an entity performing such stalking. Targetting based on what I'm actively doing right now seems fine. (and away from the targetting question, I also object to other dark patterns like pop-ups/-unders, auto-playing audio & video, etc.)

by sasaf5 5y ago

topicseed 5y ago

A targeted ad can be a contextual ad, with no personal information involved.

yakubin 5y ago

"Random ad vs targeted ad" is a false dichotomy. There are also contextual ads. For example, the audience of Linus Tech Tips regularly gets their fair share of contextual ads delivered by Linus in-band. You're not going to see an ad of a toilet paper on LTT. Instead you're going to see ads of hard drives, Squarespace, online shopping platforms, etc. The ads are the same for all viewers (i.e. definitely not targeted) and don't require any JS spyware. Moreover, LTT (and other creators) get more money from those ads than from YouTube ads. Everybody wins (except Google and Facebook).

JSavageOne 5y ago
Everyone wins except the viewer who now has to manually skip through ads because adblockers don't block those type of ads
- finger 5y ago
  SponsorBlock might be of interest. > Skip sponsorships, subscription begging and more on YouTube videos. Report sponsors on videos you watch to save others' time. [0] [0]: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/sponsorblock-for-youtube/mnjggcdmjocbbbhaepdhchncahnbgone?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/sponsorblock-for-y...
  - s8s8discourse 5y ago
    how do you expect the producers of the content you consume to continue putting out the content you want to consume if they're unable to monetise that content?
    - hhmc 5y ago
      I think the honest answer is that one expects to be in the minority that uses adblock -- and for the content to be monetized by the majority that don't.
      - Monotoko 5y ago
        I'm in a restrictive country that's extremely difficult to get stuff to, I don't have the standard payment methods and instead all these internal only services. There is absolutely no point in me watching those because I couldn't buy anything even if I wanted to
    - lpcvoid 5y ago
      Behind a privacy respecting paywall if they want. Let the market decide if their content is worth some dollar amount. Advertisement is never the answer, IMO.
    - Decabytes 5y ago
      Seriously. I don't get why people expect that they should pay nothing to watch their favorite content creators. Sure you bought an LTT water bottle, but make no mistake Google is a business, YouTube is a business and they are not providing these videos out of the goodness of their heart. If YouTube ever doesn't make sense (algorithmically, financially, or through whatever metric Google decides is important) Google will cut it.
      - lentil_soup 5y ago
        I don't think people expect anything for free but I don't want to pay with getting bombarded with ads. If their business model is not viable then they have to find a new one. Just as we can't expect content for free they can't expect me to sit there and look at adverts out of the goodness of my heart. If at all possible, I will find a way to block ads out of my mind as much as I can.
- dspillett 5y ago
  I don't mind sponsor slots - they directly pay the content creators and don't involved me to be stalked as I go about my life. If the sponsored segments get irritating, and in some cases they have, I just go elsewhere. If I don't want the content enough to put of with the sponsor segment then I simply don't want the content enough.

INTPenis 5y ago

Yeah totally, that statement is actually absurd to me. Because ANY ad is equally off putting. But a targeted ad is based on personal information. Regardless of how the ad was made, I will do anything to avoid it, just as I would any other ad.

ColinHayhurst 5y ago

Ads are not the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem is tracking. The internet has not been broken by ads. It’s been broken by data harvesting and monopolies. Contextual ads are no problem IMO, and can sometimes be a helpful (economic) signal. Without ads how can challengers get some awareness? So yes for targeted ads, but only if it does not require personal data. Contextual ads can be targeted without engaging in use of personal data.

bbbobbb 5y ago
I hope you realize this is just your perspective. To offer the alternative, to me ads are the fundamental problem. As much as I don't want to be tracked and avoid providing my information in any way possible, I just assume I am being tracked. It does not "annoy me" while consuming some content. On the other hand, any random ad / paid promotion that gets through the blocking does annoy me immensely and I do consider nearly any form of advertisement harmful.
- ColinHayhurst 5y ago
  Sure I realize. I'm not alone in this thinking but reaslize I am out-on-a-limb. I totally understand your point-of-view; it was how I thought for most of my life. Perhaps it was my shift from being mostly developer and one-company focussed to later helping and/or working with or alongside hundreds of startups, including YC S12. Without ads to gain awareness and gow many now great companies would not have crossed the chasm. And we all benefit from those companies, from innovations that flourished, and use them in our toolset. Sadly a few of them acheived their own, or backers, goal of being a monopoly, leading to the annoyance, damage and extraction we all experience.

afiori 5y ago

Personalizing ads per se does not need tracking or profiling. Doing it server-side and checking if the targeting works does. the Mr Robot scandal for better or worse, was implemented almost like this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15941302 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15941302

dspillett 5y ago

It depends how you define targetted. An advert for Intel while I'm looking at a technical site is targetted in the traditional sense, like advertising sports equipment and beer in TV broadcasts of football (where the audience is likely to be interested in one, the other, or both), and I'm fine with that. Like you I object to adverts that are targetted by stalking me as I go about my daily life, or buying & selling information gleaned about me by an entity performing such stalking. Targetting based on what I'm actively doing right now seems fine. (and away from the targetting question, I also object to other dark patterns like pop-ups/-unders, auto-playing audio & video, etc.)