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Those modern, 1-pixel wide, scrollbars that only expand when you manage to hover over them are a pox on usability. And I say this as someone with a mouse with s

Those modern, 1-pixel wide, scrollbars that only expand when you manage to hover over them are a pox on usability. And I say this as someone with a mouse with scrollwheel. They make it hard to see the size of a document and as you said: operating the scrollbar is fiddly. You can't just grab it. First you have to make it expand, then you have to move the mouse again to grab it, but don't move the mouse too much or the scrollbar will shrink again! This is on both Linux and Windows. I have no idea what it is like on OSX.

cudder 5y ago
Even worse. On MacOS the scrollbars are invisible by default, and only appear while you scroll, plus a second or so after stopping. So to grab a scrollbar in MacOS you first have to scroll the document to make the scrollbar appear. Then you have under two seconds to move the pointer on top of the narrow scrollbar so it expands allowing you to grab it before it disappears again.
- chippiewill 5y ago
  Been a while since I used a Mac, but I'm fairly certain there was a system level setting for whether scrollbars are always visible or not.
  - Milner08 5y ago
    Yes there is.
  - bengale 5y ago
    There is, and I'm pretty sure if you connect a mouse instead of a trackpad it enables by default. It took me a while to workout why I was seeing scrollbars again and how to disable it when I got a mouse.
Shorel 5y ago
That's because scrollwheels are way too clicky and not scrolly enough. You feel every click, and it is translated to aproximately a three line scroll in the document. It is a very discrete signal, instead of a continuous signal. Touchpads have this right, the scroll is very smooth, and you can scroll by tiny amounts if you want. In a way, it is a limitation of the 25+ years old technology. Why it has not been updated to something smoother is a mystery to me.
- nyanpasu64 5y ago
  I've recently installed https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/scroll_anywhere/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/scroll_anywhe... in middle+right click mode, and now miss it everywhere I don't have it (Reader Mode, PDFs, etc.). Unfortunately development looks a bit inactive, and there's no option for locking scrolling into vertical-only if you begin a scroll by dragging vertically.
- martyvis 5y ago
  Sounds like you need a Logitech MX Master 3 Mouse. The scrollwheel click is software and button controllable (uses an electromagnet I think)
  - hjkl0 5y ago
    That mouse is very expensive. There are similar smooth scroll wheels on many other, cheaper, Logitech models.

cudder 5y ago

Even worse. On MacOS the scrollbars are invisible by default, and only appear while you scroll, plus a second or so after stopping. So to grab a scrollbar in MacOS you first have to scroll the document to make the scrollbar appear. Then you have under two seconds to move the pointer on top of the narrow scrollbar so it expands allowing you to grab it before it disappears again.

chippiewill 5y ago
Been a while since I used a Mac, but I'm fairly certain there was a system level setting for whether scrollbars are always visible or not.
- Milner08 5y ago
  Yes there is.
- bengale 5y ago
  There is, and I'm pretty sure if you connect a mouse instead of a trackpad it enables by default. It took me a while to workout why I was seeing scrollbars again and how to disable it when I got a mouse.

Shorel 5y ago

That's because scrollwheels are way too clicky and not scrolly enough. You feel every click, and it is translated to aproximately a three line scroll in the document. It is a very discrete signal, instead of a continuous signal. Touchpads have this right, the scroll is very smooth, and you can scroll by tiny amounts if you want. In a way, it is a limitation of the 25+ years old technology. Why it has not been updated to something smoother is a mystery to me.

nyanpasu64 5y ago
I've recently installed https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/scroll_anywhere/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/scroll_anywhe... in middle+right click mode, and now miss it everywhere I don't have it (Reader Mode, PDFs, etc.). Unfortunately development looks a bit inactive, and there's no option for locking scrolling into vertical-only if you begin a scroll by dragging vertically.
martyvis 5y ago
Sounds like you need a Logitech MX Master 3 Mouse. The scrollwheel click is software and button controllable (uses an electromagnet I think)
- hjkl0 5y ago
  That mouse is very expensive. There are similar smooth scroll wheels on many other, cheaper, Logitech models.