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I think this is a major point of misunderstanding with the value of crypto currencies. Yes you are protected from say inflation in a currency with a corrupt gov

I think this is a major point of misunderstanding with the value of crypto currencies. Yes you are protected from say inflation in a currency with a corrupt government, but you will never be protected from someone with more force than you. Meaning, unless you know that no one will hold you at gun point and ask for your password, you are not safe from your government or anyone else. And when I say gunpoint I mean it literally and also figuratively with threats of prison and worse. Hell even in the US 4.5 billion in crypto was confiscated. Why didn’t those people just not give their password to keep the money? Because in the end government control goes way beyond a password.

djschnei 5y ago
That's a presumption about ownership of anything under the reign of a government. How is that argument crypto specific at all? Also, that 4.5 billion was mostly confiscatable because of poor key management - not people handing over their keys under duress. Also also, pretending like telling a bank to freeze an account vs threatening you into giving your keys are the same is ridiculous.
- smaryjerry 5y ago
  Because crypto is thought of as a unique cross border banking solution but you still end up at the whims of your own governments laws, regulations, and their level of protection. Countries like China have banned crypto exchanges, Canada has confiscated crypto for protesting. It’s not this miracle bank account only you have access to that everyone hoped it would be.
  - djschnei 5y ago
    ...And other countries/states have embraced Bitcoin. The China ban was going to be "the end", fast forward less than a year and the network is stronger than ever. It has more users than it ever has. Bitcoin continues to grow regardless of these actions. It simply doesn't care. You didn't address the difference between unilateral government-bank cooperative freezing of accounts en masse vs. what's required to strong-arm keys from a single person. Do you acknowledge they aren't even close to the same thing?
    - smaryjerry 5y ago
      No those are very much the same thing. If you can say give me your key or go to prison, the password doesn’t work that well. I would add that crypto is no longer even decentralized as well. Good luck find someone trust worthy to trade into and out of any fiat currency with only your wallet and without using or involving a centralized exchange or program. When goods and services aren’t able to be purchased in the crypto denomination that means on and off ramps actually make buying anything with crypto more expensive after paying any exchange fees. The only benefit would be if crypto went up in relation to fiat currency, but the ones getting rich are those earlier holders only. This is because when you buy crypto you are buying from another person. That other person took your fiat money in order to sell crypto, it was never created upon the moment you bought it except with certain stable coins which are essentially just banks for regular fiat currency, not actually crypto and definitely not decentralized.
      - djschnei 5y ago
        > No those are very much the same thing. You are wrong or being dishonest. The government calling up the bank and saying "Hey, friend. Freeze these 5000 accounts. Thanks!" clearly has less friction than strong-arming 5000 people for their wallet keys. > Good luck find someone trust worthy to trade into and out of any fiat currency with only your wallet and without using or involving a centralized exchange or program. I literally do this exact thing pretty frequently. HodlHodl and Bisq both allow you to do this in a trustless and decentralized way. And things will only improve with projects like 'TBD' from Dorsey. > When goods and services aren’t able to be purchased in the crypto denomination... But they are! Let's see... this week I've bought coffee with bitcoin, I've bought a new golf hat, I bought a magazine subscription, and a VPN subscription. This month I bought an iPad utilizing bitrefill. Early days? Sure. "Aren't available" is bullshit though. > The only benefit would be if crypto went up in relation to fiat currency, but the ones getting rich are those earlier holders only. What? You're just wrong... Bitcoin is up 250% in the last 2 years. I've been in for 1.5 years and it's literally out performed everything else I own.
        smaryjerry 5y ago

djschnei 5y ago

That's a presumption about ownership of anything under the reign of a government. How is that argument crypto specific at all? Also, that 4.5 billion was mostly confiscatable because of poor key management - not people handing over their keys under duress. Also also, pretending like telling a bank to freeze an account vs threatening you into giving your keys are the same is ridiculous.

smaryjerry 5y ago
Because crypto is thought of as a unique cross border banking solution but you still end up at the whims of your own governments laws, regulations, and their level of protection. Countries like China have banned crypto exchanges, Canada has confiscated crypto for protesting. It’s not this miracle bank account only you have access to that everyone hoped it would be.
- djschnei 5y ago
  ...And other countries/states have embraced Bitcoin. The China ban was going to be "the end", fast forward less than a year and the network is stronger than ever. It has more users than it ever has. Bitcoin continues to grow regardless of these actions. It simply doesn't care. You didn't address the difference between unilateral government-bank cooperative freezing of accounts en masse vs. what's required to strong-arm keys from a single person. Do you acknowledge they aren't even close to the same thing?
  - smaryjerry 5y ago
    No those are very much the same thing. If you can say give me your key or go to prison, the password doesn’t work that well. I would add that crypto is no longer even decentralized as well. Good luck find someone trust worthy to trade into and out of any fiat currency with only your wallet and without using or involving a centralized exchange or program. When goods and services aren’t able to be purchased in the crypto denomination that means on and off ramps actually make buying anything with crypto more expensive after paying any exchange fees. The only benefit would be if crypto went up in relation to fiat currency, but the ones getting rich are those earlier holders only. This is because when you buy crypto you are buying from another person. That other person took your fiat money in order to sell crypto, it was never created upon the moment you bought it except with certain stable coins which are essentially just banks for regular fiat currency, not actually crypto and definitely not decentralized.
    - djschnei 5y ago
      > No those are very much the same thing. You are wrong or being dishonest. The government calling up the bank and saying "Hey, friend. Freeze these 5000 accounts. Thanks!" clearly has less friction than strong-arming 5000 people for their wallet keys. > Good luck find someone trust worthy to trade into and out of any fiat currency with only your wallet and without using or involving a centralized exchange or program. I literally do this exact thing pretty frequently. HodlHodl and Bisq both allow you to do this in a trustless and decentralized way. And things will only improve with projects like 'TBD' from Dorsey. > When goods and services aren’t able to be purchased in the crypto denomination... But they are! Let's see... this week I've bought coffee with bitcoin, I've bought a new golf hat, I bought a magazine subscription, and a VPN subscription. This month I bought an iPad utilizing bitrefill. Early days? Sure. "Aren't available" is bullshit though. > The only benefit would be if crypto went up in relation to fiat currency, but the ones getting rich are those earlier holders only. What? You're just wrong... Bitcoin is up 250% in the last 2 years. I've been in for 1.5 years and it's literally out performed everything else I own.
      - smaryjerry 5y ago