4 ms·

> That is ONLY possible with federal funding, no private lender would fund that. Is this not a double edge sword tho? Prior to student loans you more or less

> That is ONLY possible with federal funding, no private lender would fund that. Is this not a double edge sword tho? Prior to student loans you more or less had to fund it yourself, which people did with a part time job or summer job. When they decided they wanted education more accessible and introduced student loans, all of a sudden more people could afford school and schools increased their prices 10 fold over time.

core-utility 5y ago
I don't know if I'd say that people can afford schools when the debt mounds are so high for many people who are unable to pay. Strictly a hypothesis, but I would say that while more people are going to and completing school than before, the affordability is actually worse than it was previously because schools no longer have to compete for tuition.
- philliphaydon 5y ago
  Well from the schools perspective is that they can afford it. I was thinking of it from the schools perspective rather than the student.
  - candiodari 5y ago
    That's the problem with this entire article. The Department of education, of course, is "forgiving" uncollectible debt, and attempting to pass it off as a bailout for students. When, of course, it's a bailout for private lenders the government needs to keep lending. If some students are helped, that's at best a side effect.
    - xracy 5y ago
      So then... The correct way to do this would be to say legally the people who borrowed from you owe you nothing now. Debt gets erased, lenders get nothing. Everybody wins except the irresponsible lenders. I'm fine with this. But uhh, feels like people would complain about gov't overstepping it's bounds or picking winners/losers...
      - powerslacker 5y ago
        Except the lenders do get something. A massive tax write off.
        GauntletWizard 5y ago
        "The Producers" aside, not paying taxes on money you gave away but didn't get back is not exactly a compelling business case.
        xracy 5y ago
        Alright, you give me 70k. I can give you back 70k, or you can take the tax write-off for the loss... which one would you rather have? And if the answer is that you'd rather have the tax write-off I would love to take out a personal loan from you. And I don't imagine you'll be in the lending business for very long.
lmilcin 5y ago
> Prior to student loans you more or less had to fund it yourself, Or become a citizen of a country that is not hostile to its population. In many countries you can get decent education for free. As it should be. Because educated population that is drowning in debt is probably going to lead to better outcomes in the future. You can have poor parents, not be particularly bright, work hard to get your education and start your life with no debt at all.
- ab_testing 5y ago
  While it is a fair comment , just how realistic is it for a n 18 year old to drop their birth citizenship and pick the citizenship of another country?
  - JCharante 5y ago
    You don't need to drop your citizenship. The US has so so many international students and every college student in the US can point to one that they know. People in developing countries like Vietnam study German in high school so that they can study in a German university for extremely cheap. "Emigration for thee but not for me" Meanwhile the smart ones who got stuck with college loans and worthless degrees figured out it's better to teach English abroad for 6x a local's salary and substantially less hours.
    - TrickardRixx 5y ago
      The only language (other than English) taught in my local school district is Spanish. How do you expect US students to learn a language to emigrate somewhere else?
      - rsfern 5y ago
        Online courses? You can find language learning correspondents too, like pen pals but with video chat. Plus most US universities have resources for students whose first language is not English, probably most countries have something similar. Picking it up by immersion is hard but it’s supposed to be the best way to learn
kesselvon 5y ago
This isn't really true, because up until relatively recently most university funding came from the state and not tuition. The decline in state support led to higher tuition costs; federal student loans turned it into a bonanza, but the steep price tags are more because tuition was never the main revenue driver for universities.
- philliphaydon 5y ago
  When did the funding from state dry up? In the 60's the cost of univerity was like ~$1500 which is ~$11,000 today, yet today people are in debt for up to 100's of 1000's. The higher education act was introduced in the 60's, and its been downhill from there.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >yet today people are in debt for up to 100's of 1000's That's extremely atypical. AFAIK the average student debt at graduation is around $35k.
bko 5y ago
People still get private student loans. In fact, private student loans pick off the best credit risk (Harvard MBA, Yale Law, etc) and offer rates lower than the government rate. So you could still finance your education through loans, just not any education

core-utility 5y ago

I don't know if I'd say that people can afford schools when the debt mounds are so high for many people who are unable to pay. Strictly a hypothesis, but I would say that while more people are going to and completing school than before, the affordability is actually worse than it was previously because schools no longer have to compete for tuition.

philliphaydon 5y ago
Well from the schools perspective is that they can afford it. I was thinking of it from the schools perspective rather than the student.
- candiodari 5y ago
  That's the problem with this entire article. The Department of education, of course, is "forgiving" uncollectible debt, and attempting to pass it off as a bailout for students. When, of course, it's a bailout for private lenders the government needs to keep lending. If some students are helped, that's at best a side effect.
  - xracy 5y ago
    So then... The correct way to do this would be to say legally the people who borrowed from you owe you nothing now. Debt gets erased, lenders get nothing. Everybody wins except the irresponsible lenders. I'm fine with this. But uhh, feels like people would complain about gov't overstepping it's bounds or picking winners/losers...
    - powerslacker 5y ago
      Except the lenders do get something. A massive tax write off.
      - GauntletWizard 5y ago
        "The Producers" aside, not paying taxes on money you gave away but didn't get back is not exactly a compelling business case.
      - xracy 5y ago
        Alright, you give me 70k. I can give you back 70k, or you can take the tax write-off for the loss... which one would you rather have? And if the answer is that you'd rather have the tax write-off I would love to take out a personal loan from you. And I don't imagine you'll be in the lending business for very long.

lmilcin 5y ago

> Prior to student loans you more or less had to fund it yourself, Or become a citizen of a country that is not hostile to its population. In many countries you can get decent education for free. As it should be. Because educated population that is drowning in debt is probably going to lead to better outcomes in the future. You can have poor parents, not be particularly bright, work hard to get your education and start your life with no debt at all.

ab_testing 5y ago
While it is a fair comment , just how realistic is it for a n 18 year old to drop their birth citizenship and pick the citizenship of another country?
- JCharante 5y ago
  You don't need to drop your citizenship. The US has so so many international students and every college student in the US can point to one that they know. People in developing countries like Vietnam study German in high school so that they can study in a German university for extremely cheap. "Emigration for thee but not for me" Meanwhile the smart ones who got stuck with college loans and worthless degrees figured out it's better to teach English abroad for 6x a local's salary and substantially less hours.
  - TrickardRixx 5y ago
    The only language (other than English) taught in my local school district is Spanish. How do you expect US students to learn a language to emigrate somewhere else?
    - rsfern 5y ago
      Online courses? You can find language learning correspondents too, like pen pals but with video chat. Plus most US universities have resources for students whose first language is not English, probably most countries have something similar. Picking it up by immersion is hard but it’s supposed to be the best way to learn

kesselvon 5y ago

This isn't really true, because up until relatively recently most university funding came from the state and not tuition. The decline in state support led to higher tuition costs; federal student loans turned it into a bonanza, but the steep price tags are more because tuition was never the main revenue driver for universities.

philliphaydon 5y ago
When did the funding from state dry up? In the 60's the cost of univerity was like ~$1500 which is ~$11,000 today, yet today people are in debt for up to 100's of 1000's. The higher education act was introduced in the 60's, and its been downhill from there.
- gruez 5y ago
  >yet today people are in debt for up to 100's of 1000's That's extremely atypical. AFAIK the average student debt at graduation is around $35k.

bko 5y ago

People still get private student loans. In fact, private student loans pick off the best credit risk (Harvard MBA, Yale Law, etc) and offer rates lower than the government rate. So you could still finance your education through loans, just not any education