7 ms·

The federal funding giveaway for crazy degrees is amazing. If you pay $250,000 to become a chef/cook - that is insane. That is ONLY possible with federal fundi

The federal funding giveaway for crazy degrees is amazing. If you pay $250,000 to become a chef/cook - that is insane. That is ONLY possible with federal funding, no private lender would fund that. I think similar issues exist with a fair number social science / ethnic studies / minor language degrees (greek etc). If you go through to a Master or PhD in ethnomusicology, while very cool (yes, I took a class along these lines I very much liked) -> the market isn't there currently in academia and the private market is to some degrees worse.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
> you pay $250,000 to become a chef/cook - that is insane. Seems like those sorts of situations are well into the territory of "if you owe the bank $1,000,000,000 then the bank has a problem"
- andrewvc 5y ago
  Nope, guaranteed by the government and not dischargable in bankruptcy!
  - ketzo 5y ago
    I think "the bank with a problem" is the government, in this case.
    - core-utility 5y ago
      Exactly, in a market where the government doesn't guarantee these loans, students would have to negotiate loans with banks who would be very invested in the ability to pay back the loan after graduation. A cook (in this example) would be very unlikely to pay back a $250,000 loan, and no bank would fund that.
alex_young 5y ago
> That is ONLY possible with federal funding, no private lender would fund that. Isn't this about private loans? Seems like it according to the title and the non-paywalled portion of the article.
- gruez 5y ago
  "for profit college" =/= "private lender"
- foobarbaz33 5y ago
  Although government is interfering with these loans by taking away much of the risk. Green lighting no bankruptcy. 250k for life long wage garnishments could be a good deal.
ajross 5y ago
> If you pay $250,000 to become a chef/cook - that is insane. I'm sorry, what are you referencing here? That number doesn't appear in the linked article. I mean, I'm sure there's an anecdote somewhere that matches, but that's hardly a representative description of the program. The debts in question are things like $40k loans for tech-related degrees from degree factory places like DeVry and ITT which are known to not have the value claimed at enrollment. Now, there's a really good argument that, indeed, the Federal government shouldn't be subsidizing DeVry to issue junk degrees! But that's not well argued by talking about hypothetical sous chefs with quarter million dollar balances.
- tempnow987 5y ago
  CIA is 24K++ per semester. 12-18 credits. I would expect 8-9 semesters needed to get the 129 credits needed. 9 * 24K = $216K. So that's $200K+ for a culinary arts degree. If you study ethnomusicology and get a PhD I could run some numbers that would make your eyes pop :)
  - xracy 5y ago
    https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/culinary-institute-of-america/paying-for-college/student-loan-debt/ https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/culinary-institute-o... I liked the part where you made up the numbers you could've looked up. Average loan for CIA is 7k/yr = 28k per 4 years. Yes, you can absolutely pick numbers that are unrepresentative to make a point. But as long as you're arguing in the real world, it would be cool if your argument was based in the real world.
philliphaydon 5y ago
> That is ONLY possible with federal funding, no private lender would fund that. Is this not a double edge sword tho? Prior to student loans you more or less had to fund it yourself, which people did with a part time job or summer job. When they decided they wanted education more accessible and introduced student loans, all of a sudden more people could afford school and schools increased their prices 10 fold over time.
- core-utility 5y ago
  I don't know if I'd say that people can afford schools when the debt mounds are so high for many people who are unable to pay. Strictly a hypothesis, but I would say that while more people are going to and completing school than before, the affordability is actually worse than it was previously because schools no longer have to compete for tuition.
  - philliphaydon 5y ago
    Well from the schools perspective is that they can afford it. I was thinking of it from the schools perspective rather than the student.
    - candiodari 5y ago
      That's the problem with this entire article. The Department of education, of course, is "forgiving" uncollectible debt, and attempting to pass it off as a bailout for students. When, of course, it's a bailout for private lenders the government needs to keep lending. If some students are helped, that's at best a side effect.
      - xracy 5y ago
        So then... The correct way to do this would be to say legally the people who borrowed from you owe you nothing now. Debt gets erased, lenders get nothing. Everybody wins except the irresponsible lenders. I'm fine with this. But uhh, feels like people would complain about gov't overstepping it's bounds or picking winners/losers...
realityvr2010 5y ago
pinephoneguy 5y ago

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

> you pay $250,000 to become a chef/cook - that is insane. Seems like those sorts of situations are well into the territory of "if you owe the bank $1,000,000,000 then the bank has a problem"

andrewvc 5y ago
Nope, guaranteed by the government and not dischargable in bankruptcy!
- ketzo 5y ago
  I think "the bank with a problem" is the government, in this case.
  - core-utility 5y ago
    Exactly, in a market where the government doesn't guarantee these loans, students would have to negotiate loans with banks who would be very invested in the ability to pay back the loan after graduation. A cook (in this example) would be very unlikely to pay back a $250,000 loan, and no bank would fund that.

alex_young 5y ago

> That is ONLY possible with federal funding, no private lender would fund that. Isn't this about private loans? Seems like it according to the title and the non-paywalled portion of the article.

gruez 5y ago
"for profit college" =/= "private lender"
foobarbaz33 5y ago
Although government is interfering with these loans by taking away much of the risk. Green lighting no bankruptcy. 250k for life long wage garnishments could be a good deal.

ajross 5y ago

> If you pay $250,000 to become a chef/cook - that is insane. I'm sorry, what are you referencing here? That number doesn't appear in the linked article. I mean, I'm sure there's an anecdote somewhere that matches, but that's hardly a representative description of the program. The debts in question are things like $40k loans for tech-related degrees from degree factory places like DeVry and ITT which are known to not have the value claimed at enrollment. Now, there's a really good argument that, indeed, the Federal government shouldn't be subsidizing DeVry to issue junk degrees! But that's not well argued by talking about hypothetical sous chefs with quarter million dollar balances.

tempnow987 5y ago
CIA is 24K++ per semester. 12-18 credits. I would expect 8-9 semesters needed to get the 129 credits needed. 9 * 24K = $216K. So that's $200K+ for a culinary arts degree. If you study ethnomusicology and get a PhD I could run some numbers that would make your eyes pop :)
- xracy 5y ago
  https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/culinary-institute-of-america/paying-for-college/student-loan-debt/ https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/culinary-institute-o... I liked the part where you made up the numbers you could've looked up. Average loan for CIA is 7k/yr = 28k per 4 years. Yes, you can absolutely pick numbers that are unrepresentative to make a point. But as long as you're arguing in the real world, it would be cool if your argument was based in the real world.

philliphaydon 5y ago

> That is ONLY possible with federal funding, no private lender would fund that. Is this not a double edge sword tho? Prior to student loans you more or less had to fund it yourself, which people did with a part time job or summer job. When they decided they wanted education more accessible and introduced student loans, all of a sudden more people could afford school and schools increased their prices 10 fold over time.

core-utility 5y ago
I don't know if I'd say that people can afford schools when the debt mounds are so high for many people who are unable to pay. Strictly a hypothesis, but I would say that while more people are going to and completing school than before, the affordability is actually worse than it was previously because schools no longer have to compete for tuition.
- philliphaydon 5y ago
  Well from the schools perspective is that they can afford it. I was thinking of it from the schools perspective rather than the student.
  - candiodari 5y ago
    That's the problem with this entire article. The Department of education, of course, is "forgiving" uncollectible debt, and attempting to pass it off as a bailout for students. When, of course, it's a bailout for private lenders the government needs to keep lending. If some students are helped, that's at best a side effect.
    - xracy 5y ago
      So then... The correct way to do this would be to say legally the people who borrowed from you owe you nothing now. Debt gets erased, lenders get nothing. Everybody wins except the irresponsible lenders. I'm fine with this. But uhh, feels like people would complain about gov't overstepping it's bounds or picking winners/losers...

realityvr2010 5y ago

pinephoneguy 5y ago