4 ms·

> whether F# is really the same as Gb (answer: it's not for them). The reason they're the "same" is because of a limitation of musical instruments in their abi

by rtsil 5y ago

> whether F# is really the same as Gb (answer: it's not for them). The reason they're the "same" is because of a limitation of musical instruments in their ability to play in multiple keys that led most Western instruments to be tuned in the 12-tone equal temperament system. If you select a different temperament, or use an instrument that can't be constrained by the 12-tone temperament, such as a computer, they can be different. Some violin players will also tell you that they're not the same notes.

cma 5y ago
>Or use an instrument that can't be constrained by the 12-tone temperament, such as a computer Or a guitar... I think multistring fretted instruments can't be in equal temperament.
AlbertCory 5y ago
This may or may not be a disagreement with what you said: They're the same on an instrument that can only play a defined set of notes, e.g. a piano or fretted instrument. It has nothing to do with the piano being in equal temperament. If a violinist is playing an F#, his finger isn't necessarily on the exact same spot as when he's playing a Gb. As he explained answering my question, it isn't even in the exact same spot for the same F# every time in the same piece. The string players have very slight variations that they can describe precisely to each other so they sound good together.
- rtsil 5y ago
  I'm not familiar with the minutiae of of piano tuning, but nothing prevents you from tuning your piano keys so that F# and Gb are two different keys. The only reason why they're the same key is because we use an equal temperament tuning. Of course, if you tune the flats and sharps separately, then the range of your piano would be considerably reduced. And yes, fretless instruments such as violins can be precise enough to differentiate between the two.
  - AlbertCory 5y ago
    > nothing prevents you from tuning your piano keys so that F# and Gb are two different keys. "nothing" other than the fact that there's only one black key which has to serve both purposes?

by rtsil 5y ago

cma 5y ago

>Or use an instrument that can't be constrained by the 12-tone temperament, such as a computer Or a guitar... I think multistring fretted instruments can't be in equal temperament.

AlbertCory 5y ago

This may or may not be a disagreement with what you said: They're the same on an instrument that can only play a defined set of notes, e.g. a piano or fretted instrument. It has nothing to do with the piano being in equal temperament. If a violinist is playing an F#, his finger isn't necessarily on the exact same spot as when he's playing a Gb. As he explained answering my question, it isn't even in the exact same spot for the same F# every time in the same piece. The string players have very slight variations that they can describe precisely to each other so they sound good together.

rtsil 5y ago
I'm not familiar with the minutiae of of piano tuning, but nothing prevents you from tuning your piano keys so that F# and Gb are two different keys. The only reason why they're the same key is because we use an equal temperament tuning. Of course, if you tune the flats and sharps separately, then the range of your piano would be considerably reduced. And yes, fretless instruments such as violins can be precise enough to differentiate between the two.
- AlbertCory 5y ago
  > nothing prevents you from tuning your piano keys so that F# and Gb are two different keys. "nothing" other than the fact that there's only one black key which has to serve both purposes?