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> It relies too heavily on trusting the very tracking companies that the policies are supposed to be protecting users against: Apple’s definition allows apps to

> It relies too heavily on trusting the very tracking companies that the policies are supposed to be protecting users against: Apple’s definition allows apps to secretly send any and all of your data to third parties, and as long as those third parties publicly claim they won’t link your data to other sites or sell it, it’s not considered “tracking” by Apple. It is a 100% trust-based honor system, which means that the only way for these companies to get caught “tracking” is to literally pen a public confession of guilt or wrongdoing — something that profit-driven companies are not exactly known for doing. >... >Not only do these trackers allow their clients to break Apple’s rules, but they specifically built features to help their clients easily circumvent Apple’s ATT privacy rules. >First, we created a dummy app that used the Kochava tracking service. With just a few clicks, we configured Kochava to violate Apple’s “ATT Opt-Out” by asking it to tracking users across apps (using “IP address” and “User Agent”) for the purpose of ad targeting (“Paid Media”). Basically, Kochava made it really convenient for any app developer to violate even Apple’s narrow definition of tracking. >We later performed the same test with the AppsFlyer tracking service (which, as previously mentioned, hides the data it sends off your device), and it was even easier to enable “privacy cheat mode” and track users against their consent — all it took was clicking a single button. Wow.

simonh 5y ago
There's no way for Apple to stop developers watching what users do in their app, if that app has any kind of server backend at all, and no way to stop developers taking that data and doing whatever they want with it. I mean how is Apple supposed to stop developers accessing data on the developer's own servers? So the only way to disincentivize this behaviour is with policies that ban it and the threat of expulsion from the App Store if you're caught. I know some of these tracking APIs send data to third parties directly, but if that was banned all this traffic would just be re-routed through the app developer's back end so it would just sweep the problem under the carpet. We can see from history with Facebook that shady dealings with data to third parties has been caught in the past, it's quite possible to get away with it but also we know that it also has a tendency to come to light. Anyway, what's the alternative?
- Grollicus 5y ago
  They could also report this behavior to the appropriate regulators and let them handle the enforcement. Maybe they'll take their time, but they will get there. In the end this is not a technical problem but a juristical one.
- Apocryphon 5y ago
  > So the only way to disincentivize this behaviour is with policies that ban it and the threat of expulsion from the App Store if you're caught. Then despite all of the anger against restrictive App Store policies and behaviors, the App Store is still insufficient to prevent intrusive user tracking. > Anyway, what's the alternative? OS-level protections that obfuscate on-device data in such a way that third party apps cannot collect the actual data. Or restricting developer access to that information in the first place.
  - b3morales 5y ago
    What specific protection are you envisioning here? An OS that completely locks down access to user input is one that you can't write a useful application for in the first place. Once the OS has handed the program a string the user entered, or a button tap, it can't prevent the program from recording that.
    - Apocryphon 5y ago
      Something like Apple’s user anonymizer patents https://venturebeat.com/2012/06/20/new-patent-will-apple-clone-you-to-save-you-from-big-brother/ https://venturebeat.com/2012/06/20/new-patent-will-apple-clo... Looks like they have a recent patent for obfuscating location data, too https://patent.nweon.com/21429 https://patent.nweon.com/21429
      - simonh 5y ago
        Can you give me an example of a third part app that might need access to on-device data outside the app, but for which obfuscated data would be sufficient? Let's say I have a calendar app and ask users for permission to access their address book, how would obfuscated address data be useful to the app? Of if I have a navigation app and need access to location data, how would you obfuscate that and still have it capable of navigation? I suspect you haven't thought this through.
nathanyz 5y ago
Seems like the solution would be for Apple to blanket ban any service that has this option to break the rules. Go nuclear on the analytics/tracking SDK's so that none of them even allow this to go on.

simonh 5y ago

There's no way for Apple to stop developers watching what users do in their app, if that app has any kind of server backend at all, and no way to stop developers taking that data and doing whatever they want with it. I mean how is Apple supposed to stop developers accessing data on the developer's own servers? So the only way to disincentivize this behaviour is with policies that ban it and the threat of expulsion from the App Store if you're caught. I know some of these tracking APIs send data to third parties directly, but if that was banned all this traffic would just be re-routed through the app developer's back end so it would just sweep the problem under the carpet. We can see from history with Facebook that shady dealings with data to third parties has been caught in the past, it's quite possible to get away with it but also we know that it also has a tendency to come to light. Anyway, what's the alternative?

Grollicus 5y ago
They could also report this behavior to the appropriate regulators and let them handle the enforcement. Maybe they'll take their time, but they will get there. In the end this is not a technical problem but a juristical one.
Apocryphon 5y ago
> So the only way to disincentivize this behaviour is with policies that ban it and the threat of expulsion from the App Store if you're caught. Then despite all of the anger against restrictive App Store policies and behaviors, the App Store is still insufficient to prevent intrusive user tracking. > Anyway, what's the alternative? OS-level protections that obfuscate on-device data in such a way that third party apps cannot collect the actual data. Or restricting developer access to that information in the first place.
- b3morales 5y ago
  What specific protection are you envisioning here? An OS that completely locks down access to user input is one that you can't write a useful application for in the first place. Once the OS has handed the program a string the user entered, or a button tap, it can't prevent the program from recording that.
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    Something like Apple’s user anonymizer patents https://venturebeat.com/2012/06/20/new-patent-will-apple-clone-you-to-save-you-from-big-brother/ https://venturebeat.com/2012/06/20/new-patent-will-apple-clo... Looks like they have a recent patent for obfuscating location data, too https://patent.nweon.com/21429 https://patent.nweon.com/21429
    - simonh 5y ago
      Can you give me an example of a third part app that might need access to on-device data outside the app, but for which obfuscated data would be sufficient? Let's say I have a calendar app and ask users for permission to access their address book, how would obfuscated address data be useful to the app? Of if I have a navigation app and need access to location data, how would you obfuscate that and still have it capable of navigation? I suspect you haven't thought this through.

nathanyz 5y ago

Seems like the solution would be for Apple to blanket ban any service that has this option to break the rules. Go nuclear on the analytics/tracking SDK's so that none of them even allow this to go on.