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Yeh that worked out really well for the last two platforms who tried it… Microsoft produced apps that no one used because they were horrible on all devices. Ap

by hughrr 5y ago

Yeh that worked out really well for the last two platforms who tried it… Microsoft produced apps that no one used because they were horrible on all devices. Apple conceded defeat and we have different interfaces on each device class.

fsflover 5y ago
They did not scale down desktop apps. They created completely incompatible mobile OSes. https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#83-why-will-the-librem-5-succeed-when-previous-linux-phones-failed https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
zozbot234 5y ago
The recent "scaling down" of Linux Gtk+ apps also encompasses "diferent interfaces". Look at some of the convergence examples, and you'll see all sorts of widgets merge, move around and disappear behind "alternate" views as window sizes shrink, then come back as the windows enlarge again. It's a fully responsive interface that merges both styles of interaction seamlessly.
- hughrr 5y ago
  A certain $2tn+ company can't manage to pull that off and actually has different interfaces for each platform. We're making some big assumption that responsive interfaces actually work and don't push poor compromises on all users at the end of the day. This is another UX death march like flat interfaces without cues and mystery meat.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    > We're making some big assumption that responsive interfaces actually work I think is pretty clear that they work. Look at responsive web pages.
    - hughrr 5y ago
      The thing is they don't always. And in some cases they actually completely fall apart.
    - account42 5y ago
      How many responsive web pages do you know that don't compromise in some way?
      - fsflover 5y ago
        There is nothing in the world which is not compromised "in some way".
quanticle 5y ago
Apple conceded defeat and we have different interfaces on each device class. Apple hasn't conceded defeat. Every release of MacOS becomes more and more like iOS. Apple keeps releasing tools, such as Catalyst, to make it easier for iOS developers to get their apps to run on MacOS. Apple is very much pursuing convergence between iOS and MacOS, to the latter's detriment.
- hughrr 5y ago
  You can run any app on any platform. It's just going to be a shit experience. Apple want you to get 80% of the way there, then do the last 20% of tailoring it to the device. There isn't some magic unicorn toolkit which can do that last 20%.
  - quanticle 5y ago
    That's exactly the problem! There's this idea that, if we automate the 80%, developers will do the last 20%, and we'll end up in a land of milk and honey, where mobile apps scale up their information density and rearrange their UIs to suit the high precision pointing devices and large screens that come with desktops and laptops. In practice that never happens. Developers make their mobile app, use the automated tool to make it into 80% of a desktop app, hit the publish button and proudly advertise, "Hey, look, we have a desktop app now!" Maybe it's fine for Apple and Google to ruin their desktop UIs like that. Maybe they don't care, or, more likely, they think that catering to the vast majority of users who are on mobile is an acceptable tradeoff for alienating the few of us who still prefer desktops as their primary computing device. But why does Linux have to tread that same path?
    - InvertedRhodium 5y ago
      > But why does Linux have to tread that same path? It doesn't, which is the beauty of open source. If enough people value this as much as you clearly do, there will always be options out there. And, if there aren't enough people then you always have the (less practical, but still doable) option of rolling your own.
    - 5y ago

by hughrr 5y ago

fsflover 5y ago

They did not scale down desktop apps. They created completely incompatible mobile OSes. https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#83-why-will-the-librem-5-succeed-when-previous-linux-phones-failed https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...

zozbot234 5y ago

The recent "scaling down" of Linux Gtk+ apps also encompasses "diferent interfaces". Look at some of the convergence examples, and you'll see all sorts of widgets merge, move around and disappear behind "alternate" views as window sizes shrink, then come back as the windows enlarge again. It's a fully responsive interface that merges both styles of interaction seamlessly.

hughrr 5y ago
A certain $2tn+ company can't manage to pull that off and actually has different interfaces for each platform. We're making some big assumption that responsive interfaces actually work and don't push poor compromises on all users at the end of the day. This is another UX death march like flat interfaces without cues and mystery meat.
- fsflover 5y ago
  > We're making some big assumption that responsive interfaces actually work I think is pretty clear that they work. Look at responsive web pages.
  - hughrr 5y ago
    The thing is they don't always. And in some cases they actually completely fall apart.
  - account42 5y ago
    How many responsive web pages do you know that don't compromise in some way?
    - fsflover 5y ago
      There is nothing in the world which is not compromised "in some way".

quanticle 5y ago

Apple conceded defeat and we have different interfaces on each device class. Apple hasn't conceded defeat. Every release of MacOS becomes more and more like iOS. Apple keeps releasing tools, such as Catalyst, to make it easier for iOS developers to get their apps to run on MacOS. Apple is very much pursuing convergence between iOS and MacOS, to the latter's detriment.

hughrr 5y ago
You can run any app on any platform. It's just going to be a shit experience. Apple want you to get 80% of the way there, then do the last 20% of tailoring it to the device. There isn't some magic unicorn toolkit which can do that last 20%.
- quanticle 5y ago
  That's exactly the problem! There's this idea that, if we automate the 80%, developers will do the last 20%, and we'll end up in a land of milk and honey, where mobile apps scale up their information density and rearrange their UIs to suit the high precision pointing devices and large screens that come with desktops and laptops. In practice that never happens. Developers make their mobile app, use the automated tool to make it into 80% of a desktop app, hit the publish button and proudly advertise, "Hey, look, we have a desktop app now!" Maybe it's fine for Apple and Google to ruin their desktop UIs like that. Maybe they don't care, or, more likely, they think that catering to the vast majority of users who are on mobile is an acceptable tradeoff for alienating the few of us who still prefer desktops as their primary computing device. But why does Linux have to tread that same path?
  - InvertedRhodium 5y ago
    > But why does Linux have to tread that same path? It doesn't, which is the beauty of open source. If enough people value this as much as you clearly do, there will always be options out there. And, if there aren't enough people then you always have the (less practical, but still doable) option of rolling your own.
  - 5y ago