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This could be less about device convergence and more about UX improvements and design coherence among apps. Some examples of what's been happening: - Touchpad

This could be less about device convergence and more about UX improvements and design coherence among apps. Some examples of what's been happening: - Touchpad gestures through various efforts: https://linuxtouchpad.org https://linuxtouchpad.org - Gnome: libAdwaita: https://blogs.gnome.org/alexm/2021/12/31/libadwaita-1-0/ https://blogs.gnome.org/alexm/2021/12/31/libadwaita-1-0/ - Core workflows getting better first-class approaches rather than being another app to install: (e.g. screenshots & screenrecording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewC1Zc-5qPQ&t=2s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewC1Zc-5qPQ&t=2s ) - Visual improvements proposed to larger complex apps like libreoffice: https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristianOhrfan/status/1472015987314761734 https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristianOhrfan/status/1472015987... I wouldn't recommend it to everyone but it'd definitely interesting to see as someone who came from being a fairly invested mac user - I track personal workflows between OSes here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/148zTJUwfVv9xfDcpSoH3mF-c4vqV3CqyEWXuqaAiXoA/edit?usp=drive_web&ouid=115795755008503287756 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/148zTJUwfVv9xfDcpSoH3...

nikodunk 5y ago
Excellent links - thank you so much for the resources. I'm very excited to see what the Pinephone Pro brings as a platform to build towards in this regard. I'm already eyeing shipping some apps on Flathub! I hope the React Native => Flathub pipeline gets built out, similar to what Ubuntu is doing with Flutter => Snap. Exciting times!
- FpUser 5y ago
  I am very displeased by Snap being shoved down one's throat on Ubuntu. This has caused me to actually abandon Ubuntu completely. Linux mint and Debian now.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Me too. The app startup times in particular make it a pain. And the pollution of the mount table and worse integration an annoyance. I still use it for servers as everything I use is available in apt anyway. But some desktop packages are only in snaps now.
    - FpUser 5y ago
      I replaced it on servers as well. Not immediately but after some extensive testing. I do not want to one day end up in a situation when snap will start displacing things on server as well and do auto updates.
  - jandrese 5y ago
    I’m kind of expecting snaps to be a fad on Ubuntu. They really don’t seem to buy much and have nontrivial overhead.
    - account42 5y ago
      Canonical really likes to develop their own technologies for some reason rather than use RedHat's. Upstart vs. SystemD, Mir vs. Wayland, Snap vs. Flatpak. Ideally there should be one standard for each with perhaps multiple implementations but for some reason it takes a lot of time wasted on duplicated effort before Canonical gives up. Not sure who really is making better cooperation here impossible but so far it seams RedHat's versions tend to be winning in the end, probably because they at least pretend to be openly developed with community involvement and don't focus on just one distro.
  - Silhouette 5y ago
    Seems like snaps were trying to solve a relevant problem (keeping software up-to-date quietly and automatically) but have a deeply flawed implementation. Almost daily I'll have Chromium suddenly completely break to the degree that it needs immediately restarting, losing all my open tabs/groups/auth. Working remotely with lots of web apps, this is a terrible experience for users!
- pinephoneguy 5y ago
  I will never run your app if you build it this way, that sounds absolutely awful. Just write a GTK app or if that's too hard a CLI app since the CLI is first class on the PinePhone.
kodah 5y ago
libadwaita and Kirigami are huge improvements for the desktop app ecosystem from what I've seen as a user. When I started to delve into desktop applications I quickly realized there's a couple hurdles I face: 1. QT was an ecosystem shock to me. I barely knew what to do to get started and got lost easily. 2. Do these applications work outside of Linux; more directly, do they have dynamic dependencies? From my experience, the former is difficult and the answer to the latter is yes. 3. The lack of library support for Go and Rust is notable. Sometimes I want to throw a UI on top of what used to be a terminal app written in Go (or Rust).
- Klonoar 5y ago
  Rust and GTK3/4 are fairly well supported, no? I know QT is a bit more of a pain to do from Rust, but I wanna say that's possible too... though nowhere near as evident as gtk-rs.
  - nirvdrum 5y ago
    GTK and Rust works really well on Linux, which I suppose is the pertinent part given the focus of the article. I've yet to work out how to get GTK and Rust to work on macOS or Windows, which makes cross-platform UI difficult.
    - gattr 5y ago
      FWIW, my smallish project [1] (Rust + GTK3) builds and works on Windows out of the box. I use the MSYS2 build environment. [1] https://github.com/GreatAttractor/vidoxide https://github.com/GreatAttractor/vidoxide
      - nirvdrum 5y ago
        Thanks. I'll take a look. I've tried Relm 3, Relm 4, and gtk-rs, but they all use Linux only in their CI. I just can't work out what to install and what env vars I need. I didn't the official GTK docs all that helpful on the topic. I'm keen to see how to package the whole thing up, too. Ideally, I could just put the necessary libraries in a directory with the executable.
theteapot 5y ago
What's a core workflow in this context?
- berkes 5y ago
  I presume things like making screenshots, browsing files, looking up contacts, maintaining a calendar, reading and sending emails, calculating some quick numbers, making backups and so on. Stuff that, regardless of your niche, is needed. Whether you are a programmer or a plumber, you'll be doing many of these tasks on a daily basis.
  - theteapot 5y ago
    Oh OK. Nit picking, but more like "core functions" then right? Put two or more together and it's a workflow.
    - berkes 5y ago
      Correct. Core workflows would then be composed of core functions. E.g. "look up a contact to schedule a meeting" would be a core workflow, composed of core functions addressbook + calendar + email.
29athrowaway 5y ago
You can use FreeOffice instead of LibreOffice, it has a more refined UI. https://www.freeoffice.com/en/ https://www.freeoffice.com/en/
- rzzzt 5y ago
  Is the Ribbon-like toolbar out of... whatever protection it had from getting implemented in other applications?
  - NGRhodes 5y ago
    It's possible to design a ribbon bar that does not infringe on MS patents. IRC there are only valid patents for specific parts of the MS ribbon bar, not the whole bar. "Although Microsoft popularized the term with a new meaning, similar tabbed layouts of controls had existed in previous software from other vendors, including 3D Studio Max R3 and later, Adobe Dreamweaver, Borland Delphi, HotDog and Macromedia HomeSite." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_(computing) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_(computing)
- kombine 5y ago
  Is this closed source?
  - throwamon 5y ago
    It can't be, it says free in the name! Yes, it's closed source. It's only free as in beer. Their website says: "What's the catch? There is none." It seems they offer this as a free product because they have a paid one with more features.
72deluxe 5y ago
Interesting spreadsheet! For a Git GUI for Linux (and Windows), you might like GitAhead which builds under Linux? It's not under active development but has been forked to GittyUp: https://github.com/Murmele/Gittyup https://github.com/Murmele/Gittyup
WhyNotHugo 5y ago
For "open terminal here", nemo includes this as a right click option. `gammastep` is a good tool to change colour temperature at sundown. Works on wayland. `darkman` allows handling dark mode transitions (it's a bit more technical).

nikodunk 5y ago

Excellent links - thank you so much for the resources. I'm very excited to see what the Pinephone Pro brings as a platform to build towards in this regard. I'm already eyeing shipping some apps on Flathub! I hope the React Native => Flathub pipeline gets built out, similar to what Ubuntu is doing with Flutter => Snap. Exciting times!

FpUser 5y ago
I am very displeased by Snap being shoved down one's throat on Ubuntu. This has caused me to actually abandon Ubuntu completely. Linux mint and Debian now.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Me too. The app startup times in particular make it a pain. And the pollution of the mount table and worse integration an annoyance. I still use it for servers as everything I use is available in apt anyway. But some desktop packages are only in snaps now.
  - FpUser 5y ago
    I replaced it on servers as well. Not immediately but after some extensive testing. I do not want to one day end up in a situation when snap will start displacing things on server as well and do auto updates.
- jandrese 5y ago
  I’m kind of expecting snaps to be a fad on Ubuntu. They really don’t seem to buy much and have nontrivial overhead.
  - account42 5y ago
    Canonical really likes to develop their own technologies for some reason rather than use RedHat's. Upstart vs. SystemD, Mir vs. Wayland, Snap vs. Flatpak. Ideally there should be one standard for each with perhaps multiple implementations but for some reason it takes a lot of time wasted on duplicated effort before Canonical gives up. Not sure who really is making better cooperation here impossible but so far it seams RedHat's versions tend to be winning in the end, probably because they at least pretend to be openly developed with community involvement and don't focus on just one distro.
- Silhouette 5y ago
  Seems like snaps were trying to solve a relevant problem (keeping software up-to-date quietly and automatically) but have a deeply flawed implementation. Almost daily I'll have Chromium suddenly completely break to the degree that it needs immediately restarting, losing all my open tabs/groups/auth. Working remotely with lots of web apps, this is a terrible experience for users!
pinephoneguy 5y ago
I will never run your app if you build it this way, that sounds absolutely awful. Just write a GTK app or if that's too hard a CLI app since the CLI is first class on the PinePhone.

kodah 5y ago

libadwaita and Kirigami are huge improvements for the desktop app ecosystem from what I've seen as a user. When I started to delve into desktop applications I quickly realized there's a couple hurdles I face: 1. QT was an ecosystem shock to me. I barely knew what to do to get started and got lost easily. 2. Do these applications work outside of Linux; more directly, do they have dynamic dependencies? From my experience, the former is difficult and the answer to the latter is yes. 3. The lack of library support for Go and Rust is notable. Sometimes I want to throw a UI on top of what used to be a terminal app written in Go (or Rust).

Klonoar 5y ago
Rust and GTK3/4 are fairly well supported, no? I know QT is a bit more of a pain to do from Rust, but I wanna say that's possible too... though nowhere near as evident as gtk-rs.
- nirvdrum 5y ago
  GTK and Rust works really well on Linux, which I suppose is the pertinent part given the focus of the article. I've yet to work out how to get GTK and Rust to work on macOS or Windows, which makes cross-platform UI difficult.
  - gattr 5y ago
    FWIW, my smallish project [1] (Rust + GTK3) builds and works on Windows out of the box. I use the MSYS2 build environment. [1] https://github.com/GreatAttractor/vidoxide https://github.com/GreatAttractor/vidoxide
    - nirvdrum 5y ago
      Thanks. I'll take a look. I've tried Relm 3, Relm 4, and gtk-rs, but they all use Linux only in their CI. I just can't work out what to install and what env vars I need. I didn't the official GTK docs all that helpful on the topic. I'm keen to see how to package the whole thing up, too. Ideally, I could just put the necessary libraries in a directory with the executable.

theteapot 5y ago

What's a core workflow in this context?

berkes 5y ago
I presume things like making screenshots, browsing files, looking up contacts, maintaining a calendar, reading and sending emails, calculating some quick numbers, making backups and so on. Stuff that, regardless of your niche, is needed. Whether you are a programmer or a plumber, you'll be doing many of these tasks on a daily basis.
- theteapot 5y ago
  Oh OK. Nit picking, but more like "core functions" then right? Put two or more together and it's a workflow.
  - berkes 5y ago
    Correct. Core workflows would then be composed of core functions. E.g. "look up a contact to schedule a meeting" would be a core workflow, composed of core functions addressbook + calendar + email.

29athrowaway 5y ago

You can use FreeOffice instead of LibreOffice, it has a more refined UI. https://www.freeoffice.com/en/ https://www.freeoffice.com/en/

rzzzt 5y ago
Is the Ribbon-like toolbar out of... whatever protection it had from getting implemented in other applications?
- NGRhodes 5y ago
  It's possible to design a ribbon bar that does not infringe on MS patents. IRC there are only valid patents for specific parts of the MS ribbon bar, not the whole bar. "Although Microsoft popularized the term with a new meaning, similar tabbed layouts of controls had existed in previous software from other vendors, including 3D Studio Max R3 and later, Adobe Dreamweaver, Borland Delphi, HotDog and Macromedia HomeSite." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_(computing) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_(computing)
kombine 5y ago
Is this closed source?
- throwamon 5y ago
  It can't be, it says free in the name! Yes, it's closed source. It's only free as in beer. Their website says: "What's the catch? There is none." It seems they offer this as a free product because they have a paid one with more features.

72deluxe 5y ago

Interesting spreadsheet! For a Git GUI for Linux (and Windows), you might like GitAhead which builds under Linux? It's not under active development but has been forked to GittyUp: https://github.com/Murmele/Gittyup https://github.com/Murmele/Gittyup

WhyNotHugo 5y ago

For "open terminal here", nemo includes this as a right click option. `gammastep` is a good tool to change colour temperature at sundown. Works on wayland. `darkman` allows handling dark mode transitions (it's a bit more technical).