7 ms·

The environmental movement is 9/10ths feelings, and 1/10th science. A lot of environmentalists just don't like rural people so they do things like rail on and o

The environmental movement is 9/10ths feelings, and 1/10th science. A lot of environmentalists just don't like rural people so they do things like rail on and on about pickup trucks whilest on a plane bound for a European vacation. That three eyed fish on the Simpsons probably resulted in thousands of deaths due to the environmental folks choosing coal over nuclear. The goal is good vibes, not results.

sofixa 5y ago
> A lot of environmentalists just don't like rural people so they do things like rail on and on about pickup trucks What? I don't think there are many environmentalists who "don't like rural people" and have a problem with pickup trucks used where they're appropriate ( like on a farm). In a country like the US, they're often abused as a suburban vehicle, which is a preposterous waste which deserves railing on against.
- vkou 5y ago
  The beauty of attacking a caricature of an environmentalist is that you can be as judgemental as you want about a fictional judgemental person. You can then safely lump that caricature in the same bucket as people with actual policy proposals, and ignore the latter outright.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- willcipriano 5y ago
  You may change my view today, but I have yet to meet a person who is passionate about pickup truck use, who will also decry air travel as a similar waste. I'm sure people like that exist, but I bet a lot of them don't use computers.
  - mrguyorama 5y ago
    I'm right here thank you very much
    - alternatetwo 5y ago
      Here as well. I'm even against SUVs which are the environmentally unfriendly car of choice here in Germany.
      - willcipriano 5y ago
        I applaud all of you for consistency in your opinions. I don't do either myself if it matters. (This applies to the sibling comments as well)
  - KptMarchewa 5y ago
    There's a reason why US produce over 2x CO2 per capita than EU, and cheap flights like Ryanair are extremely heavy used here.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    Hello! I use computers too much and decry air travel as massive waste as well as pickups. I've done so for a long time and most of my friends agree, and also use computers a lot.
- rurp 5y ago
  Yep, the vast majority of trucks I see in my city are spotless and probably only used for commuting. It's far less environmentally and financially costly to drive around town with a car, but for whatever reason a lot people think that commuting in a truck is cooler so that's what they burn their money on. Some absurd percent of 4x4 vehicles, like 90%, have never been driven off road. Conversely, there's a lot of overlap between environmentalists and people who like to go outside and get off the beaten path. Driving in remote areas a lot pretty much necessitates having a truck. I've never heard any animosity from environmentalists towards truck owners who actually use their truck for truck things.
  - anonfornoreason 5y ago
    Ahhh yes, the "for my cause and values it's OK and worth it, but for yours, not so much". Even in this example alone you neglected to consider the number of trucks that are used to tow something. Say you need (or want!) to tow a heavy trailer once a month or every other month. Should you buy one vehicle that can do this, and then use it to commute 90% of the time, or should you buy two vehicles, and let one sit around unused most of the time? Now what about the person that needs to haul some things? Surely a small trailer + SUV is superior to a truck? Not so fast: gotta store that trailer and be comfortable with it. My guess is for 95% of people, a truck for utility purposes is far superior. Finally, newer trucks are actually surprisingly efficient. I just got 22mpg 360 miles round trip in my full ton pickup truck. Been shopping for minivans, aside from the rare hybrid minivan, they only get around 26mpg on highway.
    - sofixa 5y ago
      > Should you buy one vehicle that can do this, and then use it to commute 90% of the time, or should you buy two vehicles, and let one sit around unused most of the time Or maybe rent a vehicle if it's only for towing once every other month.. Unless renting costs upwards of 1k, it'd be many years before buying makes sense for usage once every other month.
      - njarboe 5y ago
Aloha 5y ago
I don't disagree really. They focus on ideal outcomes over what we can realistically accomplish - I've had plenty of discussions where people just ignore the trillions in infrastructure we have baked into steel and concrete, as well as people habits and lifestyle - folks honestly seem to think that with enough political will you can just turn all of that off in 2-5 years. As with everything in society, we didn't get here overnight, and turning a vast ship takes time.
- tormeh 5y ago
  It would be super easy to turn off all fossil fuels. Just flick the switch and make do with what electricity generation is left. The question is just how much we're willing to pay. Taking most of civilization offline is a bit much to ask, obviously, so flicking the switch is off the table. That said, we could probably do it in less than 5 years of wartime effort.
  - Aloha 5y ago
    You made my point for me.
KerrAvon 5y ago
mkoubaa 5y ago
I would gladly join a more scientific environmental movement but I haven't found one. And I looked
floor2 5y ago
This is just a completely imaginary attack on people you oppose. A textbook example of a "strawman argument". The problems of pollution, climate change, etc are real. The science is clear. Please don't make up an imaginary bad actor who has bad motivations for why they want to solve or improve some of these problems. This is a rhetoric device designed to distract people from the problems and solutions by getting them to dislike, distrust or hate the people trying to help.
bamboozled 5y ago
Sorry but this is one of the least productive and silliest comments I’ve seen on here for a long time…

sofixa 5y ago

> A lot of environmentalists just don't like rural people so they do things like rail on and on about pickup trucks What? I don't think there are many environmentalists who "don't like rural people" and have a problem with pickup trucks used where they're appropriate ( like on a farm). In a country like the US, they're often abused as a suburban vehicle, which is a preposterous waste which deserves railing on against.

vkou 5y ago
The beauty of attacking a caricature of an environmentalist is that you can be as judgemental as you want about a fictional judgemental person. You can then safely lump that caricature in the same bucket as people with actual policy proposals, and ignore the latter outright.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
willcipriano 5y ago
You may change my view today, but I have yet to meet a person who is passionate about pickup truck use, who will also decry air travel as a similar waste. I'm sure people like that exist, but I bet a lot of them don't use computers.
- mrguyorama 5y ago
  I'm right here thank you very much
  - alternatetwo 5y ago
    Here as well. I'm even against SUVs which are the environmentally unfriendly car of choice here in Germany.
    - willcipriano 5y ago
      I applaud all of you for consistency in your opinions. I don't do either myself if it matters. (This applies to the sibling comments as well)
- KptMarchewa 5y ago
  There's a reason why US produce over 2x CO2 per capita than EU, and cheap flights like Ryanair are extremely heavy used here.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Hello! I use computers too much and decry air travel as massive waste as well as pickups. I've done so for a long time and most of my friends agree, and also use computers a lot.
rurp 5y ago
Yep, the vast majority of trucks I see in my city are spotless and probably only used for commuting. It's far less environmentally and financially costly to drive around town with a car, but for whatever reason a lot people think that commuting in a truck is cooler so that's what they burn their money on. Some absurd percent of 4x4 vehicles, like 90%, have never been driven off road. Conversely, there's a lot of overlap between environmentalists and people who like to go outside and get off the beaten path. Driving in remote areas a lot pretty much necessitates having a truck. I've never heard any animosity from environmentalists towards truck owners who actually use their truck for truck things.
- anonfornoreason 5y ago
  Ahhh yes, the "for my cause and values it's OK and worth it, but for yours, not so much". Even in this example alone you neglected to consider the number of trucks that are used to tow something. Say you need (or want!) to tow a heavy trailer once a month or every other month. Should you buy one vehicle that can do this, and then use it to commute 90% of the time, or should you buy two vehicles, and let one sit around unused most of the time? Now what about the person that needs to haul some things? Surely a small trailer + SUV is superior to a truck? Not so fast: gotta store that trailer and be comfortable with it. My guess is for 95% of people, a truck for utility purposes is far superior. Finally, newer trucks are actually surprisingly efficient. I just got 22mpg 360 miles round trip in my full ton pickup truck. Been shopping for minivans, aside from the rare hybrid minivan, they only get around 26mpg on highway.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    > Should you buy one vehicle that can do this, and then use it to commute 90% of the time, or should you buy two vehicles, and let one sit around unused most of the time Or maybe rent a vehicle if it's only for towing once every other month.. Unless renting costs upwards of 1k, it'd be many years before buying makes sense for usage once every other month.
    - njarboe 5y ago

Aloha 5y ago

I don't disagree really. They focus on ideal outcomes over what we can realistically accomplish - I've had plenty of discussions where people just ignore the trillions in infrastructure we have baked into steel and concrete, as well as people habits and lifestyle - folks honestly seem to think that with enough political will you can just turn all of that off in 2-5 years. As with everything in society, we didn't get here overnight, and turning a vast ship takes time.

tormeh 5y ago
It would be super easy to turn off all fossil fuels. Just flick the switch and make do with what electricity generation is left. The question is just how much we're willing to pay. Taking most of civilization offline is a bit much to ask, obviously, so flicking the switch is off the table. That said, we could probably do it in less than 5 years of wartime effort.
- Aloha 5y ago
  You made my point for me.

KerrAvon 5y ago

mkoubaa 5y ago

I would gladly join a more scientific environmental movement but I haven't found one. And I looked

floor2 5y ago

This is just a completely imaginary attack on people you oppose. A textbook example of a "strawman argument". The problems of pollution, climate change, etc are real. The science is clear. Please don't make up an imaginary bad actor who has bad motivations for why they want to solve or improve some of these problems. This is a rhetoric device designed to distract people from the problems and solutions by getting them to dislike, distrust or hate the people trying to help.

bamboozled 5y ago

Sorry but this is one of the least productive and silliest comments I’ve seen on here for a long time…