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In fact, Lean Startup includes agile methodologies for product development. Both work hand in hand. The last thing we miss to complete the perfect environment i

In fact, Lean Startup includes agile methodologies for product development. Both work hand in hand. The last thing we miss to complete the perfect environment is Lean Investment. But in a sense, isn't it what YCombinator, 500startups and other accelerators are already doing? What I don't understand is why he hopes Startup doesn't become the new Agile. Agile methodologies have transformed an entire industry in awesome ways and greatly decreased the failure rate of IT projects. I would hope Lean Startup will decrease failure rates in the same proportions for startups.

plinkplonk 15y ago
"Agile methodologies have transformed an entire industry in awesome ways and greatly decreased the failure rate of IT projects." (Reliable non vendorware) Citation needed. How have "agile methodologies" made "awesome transformations" any more than the previous methodology fad(RUP I believe)? Then, a lot of consultants ran around raving about uml diagrams etc and the rate of failure of projects didn't change. With the formulation of agile, a lot of consultants ran around raving about TDD and Scrum and so on. Do you have any non anecdotal evidence about this massive industry transformation and "great decrease of failure rates"? If so you should publish pronto because, afaik, no one has that kind of evidence to date. This kind of sweeping hyperbolic pseudo religious statement is the problem with the cult of agile.
- sarbogast 15y ago
  It's only "sweeping hyperbolic pseudo religious" if you discard the facts that ARE there: http://www.ambysoft.com/surveys/agileFebruary2008.html#Figure1 http://www.ambysoft.com/surveys/agileFebruary2008.html#Figur... Scott Ambler has been running these surveys for a few years now, and they are consistent. In 2010, agile and iterative methodologies (that include RUP, which is rybbish I agree, but looking at the facts here) lead to +10% in success rate compared to ad-hoc or waterfall. But now you are going to tell me Scott Ambler is one of these agile consultants preaching for his own church, right?
  - plinkplonk 15y ago
    Heh, If you consider some surveys run by a methodology consultant to be the only "evidence" you have of the superiority of said methodology, then you just proved my point better than I ever could. Thank You! PS: You really should get a stats education, so you can properly judge (and see through) such shaky "evidence"
    - sarbogast 15y ago
      Your total absence of humility and your absolute disrespect for field people like Ambler and Poppendieck are simply staggering. I wish you luck.
      - gruseom 15y ago
        I'll pipe up for Plink. Yeah, he's caustic about this, but he has a lot of experience with Agile (including some of the prominent names) and what he's saying is based on observation. Also, he's more of a "field people" than the consultants you mention. I'm not defending rudeness, but his exasperation is something I understand. It's the exasperation of a good programmer with management bullshit.
  - akkartik 15y ago
    "It's only "sweeping hyperbolic pseudo religious" if you discard the facts that ARE there." No need for that. All he asked for was a citation; nobody's 'discarding' anything.

plinkplonk 15y ago

"Agile methodologies have transformed an entire industry in awesome ways and greatly decreased the failure rate of IT projects." (Reliable non vendorware) Citation needed. How have "agile methodologies" made "awesome transformations" any more than the previous methodology fad(RUP I believe)? Then, a lot of consultants ran around raving about uml diagrams etc and the rate of failure of projects didn't change. With the formulation of agile, a lot of consultants ran around raving about TDD and Scrum and so on. Do you have any non anecdotal evidence about this massive industry transformation and "great decrease of failure rates"? If so you should publish pronto because, afaik, no one has that kind of evidence to date. This kind of sweeping hyperbolic pseudo religious statement is the problem with the cult of agile.

sarbogast 15y ago
It's only "sweeping hyperbolic pseudo religious" if you discard the facts that ARE there: http://www.ambysoft.com/surveys/agileFebruary2008.html#Figure1 http://www.ambysoft.com/surveys/agileFebruary2008.html#Figur... Scott Ambler has been running these surveys for a few years now, and they are consistent. In 2010, agile and iterative methodologies (that include RUP, which is rybbish I agree, but looking at the facts here) lead to +10% in success rate compared to ad-hoc or waterfall. But now you are going to tell me Scott Ambler is one of these agile consultants preaching for his own church, right?
- plinkplonk 15y ago
  Heh, If you consider some surveys run by a methodology consultant to be the only "evidence" you have of the superiority of said methodology, then you just proved my point better than I ever could. Thank You! PS: You really should get a stats education, so you can properly judge (and see through) such shaky "evidence"
  - sarbogast 15y ago
    Your total absence of humility and your absolute disrespect for field people like Ambler and Poppendieck are simply staggering. I wish you luck.
    - gruseom 15y ago
      I'll pipe up for Plink. Yeah, he's caustic about this, but he has a lot of experience with Agile (including some of the prominent names) and what he's saying is based on observation. Also, he's more of a "field people" than the consultants you mention. I'm not defending rudeness, but his exasperation is something I understand. It's the exasperation of a good programmer with management bullshit.
- akkartik 15y ago
  "It's only "sweeping hyperbolic pseudo religious" if you discard the facts that ARE there." No need for that. All he asked for was a citation; nobody's 'discarding' anything.