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Precisely! Look at ~2001/02 -- ENRON... My energy bill went from $100/mo to over $1,000/mo for NO REASON.. My power was shut off in february because my regul

Precisely! Look at ~2001/02 -- ENRON... My energy bill went from $100/mo to over $1,000/mo for NO REASON.. My power was shut off in february because my regular energy bill literally went up 10X during that period (no change in use) -- and I was ~25 and it was the first downturn, and while I owned my house - I had to borrow money from parents to pay the fucking power bill due to enron shenanigans... (san jose ca, so not even super cold/winter conditions) -- Look at fuel prices right now - same fuckery about today: When the war started and fuel went to $90/barrel - the gas pump first time ever went to $3/gallon... Look at fuel prices today $92/barrel -- $5.19 at the pump. Yeah - FN BS.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
beambot 5y ago
And then when you try to go self-sufficient with EV, PV, & Batteries, the state of California attempts to pass legislation to tax your PV array. Goofy.
gruez 5y ago
I haven't done much research about enron so I'm not going to comment on it, but your remark about "same fuckery about today" does not seem to check out. If you plot out spot crude and gasoline prices[1], you'll see they track pretty closely starting from when records began (1990s). Also, if you dump out the data and calculate the ratio of gas prices to crude prices (after converting 42 gal = 1bbl), you see it remains pretty steady across the years. For the latest available data the ratio was 1.267, and the average for all available data is 1.222. That's higher, but definitely not in line with the numbers you claim. [1] https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_spt_s1_d.htm https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_spt_s1_d.htm
- samstave 5y ago
  Read this about 2001 enron BS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_California_electricity_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_California_ele... 20X increase in energy costs at that time --- ELI5: While you're speaking that SPOT crude remains relativistic constant/regular over time, may you please explain if this is true, what the cost increases at the pump are directly related to? When I began driving, the spot price tracking you mention was the same, but the pump price was $.99/gallon for gas... So, I admit I do not have an understanding of the reasons behind the price at the pump, but shouldn't that price match the same graph? If not, please ELI5 how it now apparently costs 5X the cost to deliver gas to the pump? Shouldnt any company be seeking economies at scale and more efficient everything - especially in OIL/GAS where they are really reliant on compute for the future success of their industry and the power of compute is 10,000X more powerful today than in 1990? Yet - the pump always goes up... (I'll go ahead and you're going to excuse it as "the cost of doing business/expenses have gone up) If true, then why isn't toilet paper $50/roll? Trees are not going to replenish themselves at the same rate as our consumption... so shouldn't toilet paper be super expensive? What is your opinion on the following video on the origins of oil and the origin of the term "Fossil Fuel" coined by Rockefeller: https://youtu.be/vdSjyvIHVLw https://youtu.be/vdSjyvIHVLw
  - gruez 5y ago
    >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_California_ele https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_California_ele... 1. your own article lists multiple non-eron related reasons for the crisis 2. AFAIK energy markets are the norm. state regulators might regulate the rates that retail customers pay, but the utilities are buying the electricity from the free market. Therefore the supply/demand dynamic when it comes to prices should already be factored in, which was why I was confused it was initially brought up. >While you're speaking that SPOT crude remains relativistic constant/regular over time, may you please explain if this is true, what the cost increases at the pump are directly related to? helpful page from eia.gov: https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/ https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/ >When I began driving, the spot price tracking you mention was the same, but the pump price was $.99/gallon for gas... obvious question: were you in the same state? taxes are baked into the gas price, so if you moved from texas to california, it wouldn't be surprising that your gas price went up for no reason. >So, I admit I do not have an understanding of the reasons behind the price at the pump, but shouldn't that price match the same graph? I went a step further and compared crude oil prices to retail gas prices (available from https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_nus_w.htm https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_nus_w.htm), and found that the ratio hovers at around 2, with that ratio being higher in the 80s/90s than today. While there's some fluctuation, it's nowhere close to the amounts implied by your anecdotes. Speaking of which, I find your anecdotes impossible to substantiate. Which state did you live in? When was "the war"? >If true, then why isn't toilet paper $50/roll? Trees are not going to replenish themselves at the same rate as our consumption... I'm not sure where you're getting that conclusion from, but pulpwood trees are effectively farmed. The growth cycles are longer than something like corn, but they're still planted/replenished at approximately the same rate they're cut. The deforestation stories you hear are largely from developing countries cutting down forest for development purposes.
    - samstave 5y ago
      I think we are in 50/50 agreement: you have 50% the knowledge that I have, I have 50% the knowledge you have: Thus, I am happy to capitulate and learn from your insights as well.
    - 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

beambot 5y ago

And then when you try to go self-sufficient with EV, PV, & Batteries, the state of California attempts to pass legislation to tax your PV array. Goofy.

gruez 5y ago

I haven't done much research about enron so I'm not going to comment on it, but your remark about "same fuckery about today" does not seem to check out. If you plot out spot crude and gasoline prices[1], you'll see they track pretty closely starting from when records began (1990s). Also, if you dump out the data and calculate the ratio of gas prices to crude prices (after converting 42 gal = 1bbl), you see it remains pretty steady across the years. For the latest available data the ratio was 1.267, and the average for all available data is 1.222. That's higher, but definitely not in line with the numbers you claim. [1] https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_spt_s1_d.htm https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_spt_s1_d.htm

samstave 5y ago
Read this about 2001 enron BS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_California_electricity_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_California_ele... 20X increase in energy costs at that time --- ELI5: While you're speaking that SPOT crude remains relativistic constant/regular over time, may you please explain if this is true, what the cost increases at the pump are directly related to? When I began driving, the spot price tracking you mention was the same, but the pump price was $.99/gallon for gas... So, I admit I do not have an understanding of the reasons behind the price at the pump, but shouldn't that price match the same graph? If not, please ELI5 how it now apparently costs 5X the cost to deliver gas to the pump? Shouldnt any company be seeking economies at scale and more efficient everything - especially in OIL/GAS where they are really reliant on compute for the future success of their industry and the power of compute is 10,000X more powerful today than in 1990? Yet - the pump always goes up... (I'll go ahead and you're going to excuse it as "the cost of doing business/expenses have gone up) If true, then why isn't toilet paper $50/roll? Trees are not going to replenish themselves at the same rate as our consumption... so shouldn't toilet paper be super expensive? What is your opinion on the following video on the origins of oil and the origin of the term "Fossil Fuel" coined by Rockefeller: https://youtu.be/vdSjyvIHVLw https://youtu.be/vdSjyvIHVLw
- gruez 5y ago
  >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_California_ele https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_California_ele... 1. your own article lists multiple non-eron related reasons for the crisis 2. AFAIK energy markets are the norm. state regulators might regulate the rates that retail customers pay, but the utilities are buying the electricity from the free market. Therefore the supply/demand dynamic when it comes to prices should already be factored in, which was why I was confused it was initially brought up. >While you're speaking that SPOT crude remains relativistic constant/regular over time, may you please explain if this is true, what the cost increases at the pump are directly related to? helpful page from eia.gov: https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/ https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/ >When I began driving, the spot price tracking you mention was the same, but the pump price was $.99/gallon for gas... obvious question: were you in the same state? taxes are baked into the gas price, so if you moved from texas to california, it wouldn't be surprising that your gas price went up for no reason. >So, I admit I do not have an understanding of the reasons behind the price at the pump, but shouldn't that price match the same graph? I went a step further and compared crude oil prices to retail gas prices (available from https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_nus_w.htm https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_nus_w.htm), and found that the ratio hovers at around 2, with that ratio being higher in the 80s/90s than today. While there's some fluctuation, it's nowhere close to the amounts implied by your anecdotes. Speaking of which, I find your anecdotes impossible to substantiate. Which state did you live in? When was "the war"? >If true, then why isn't toilet paper $50/roll? Trees are not going to replenish themselves at the same rate as our consumption... I'm not sure where you're getting that conclusion from, but pulpwood trees are effectively farmed. The growth cycles are longer than something like corn, but they're still planted/replenished at approximately the same rate they're cut. The deforestation stories you hear are largely from developing countries cutting down forest for development purposes.
  - samstave 5y ago
    I think we are in 50/50 agreement: you have 50% the knowledge that I have, I have 50% the knowledge you have: Thus, I am happy to capitulate and learn from your insights as well.
  - 5y ago