22 ms·

> but only during the day, and there's a massive deficit during the night Only if you assume the demand stays constant, but it doesn't; Demand is usually the h

> but only during the day, and there's a massive deficit during the night Only if you assume the demand stays constant, but it doesn't; Demand is usually the highest when PV output is also the highest, the middle of the day when everybody is at work, using all kinds of electricity drawing machines.

peter422 5y ago
It also would heavily advantage power plants that could turn on and off quickly to only produce power when the cost of that power is high. Especially if these plants produced a lot of pollution that was also not accounted for.
infinityio 5y ago
Based upon the UK's National Grid Data (https://grid.iamkate.com/ https://grid.iamkate.com/) I would disagree with you - It seems that peak demand lies at about 6PM, and solar peaks about 11:30AM - This leads to a significant increase in fossil fuel consumption around this time
- freeflight 5y ago
  The UK is a curious example to use for this, afaik a big part of that "peak demand" is people starting up their electric tea kettles in a phenomenon known as TV pickup [0] For contrast, here are the stats for Germany [1] and the consumption peaks during the day contrast very well with the night consumption. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_pickup https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_pickup [1] https://www.agora-energiewende.de/en/service/recent-electricity-data/chart/power_generation/13.02.2022/16.02.2022/today/ https://www.agora-energiewende.de/en/service/recent-electric...
morning_gelato 5y ago
> Demand is usually the highest when PV output is also the highest Not quite, the mismatch in timing between solar generation and energy demand has been called the "duck curve" [1][2]. Peak demand is normally in the evening when people are done with work [3]. [1] https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/confronting-duck-curve-how-address-over-generation-solar-energy https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/confronting-duck-curve-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_curve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_curve [3] https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=42915 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=42915
- deleted 5y ago
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terite 5y ago
> Demand is usually the highest when PV output is also the highest In California, demand peaks are around 6-8pm, well past the peak of solar production. This disparity has a name, the "Duck Curve". You can view the near real-time power demand on the CAISO[1] website. Your region may have a similar way to see live demand. [1] http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/default.aspx http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/default.aspx
skrbjc 5y ago
Not really, the peak is around 6PM when people get home from work, turn on all their lights, tvs, appliances, etc. This will change as well with the push to fully electrify residential homes, which would mean very heavy electricity usage in the evening for heating, electric stoves for cooking, electric dryers, and electric cars being plugged in. https://www.e-education.psu.edu/ebf483/node/534 https://www.e-education.psu.edu/ebf483/node/534

peter422 5y ago

It also would heavily advantage power plants that could turn on and off quickly to only produce power when the cost of that power is high. Especially if these plants produced a lot of pollution that was also not accounted for.

infinityio 5y ago

Based upon the UK's National Grid Data (https://grid.iamkate.com/ https://grid.iamkate.com/) I would disagree with you - It seems that peak demand lies at about 6PM, and solar peaks about 11:30AM - This leads to a significant increase in fossil fuel consumption around this time

freeflight 5y ago
The UK is a curious example to use for this, afaik a big part of that "peak demand" is people starting up their electric tea kettles in a phenomenon known as TV pickup [0] For contrast, here are the stats for Germany [1] and the consumption peaks during the day contrast very well with the night consumption. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_pickup https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_pickup [1] https://www.agora-energiewende.de/en/service/recent-electricity-data/chart/power_generation/13.02.2022/16.02.2022/today/ https://www.agora-energiewende.de/en/service/recent-electric...

morning_gelato 5y ago

> Demand is usually the highest when PV output is also the highest Not quite, the mismatch in timing between solar generation and energy demand has been called the "duck curve" [1][2]. Peak demand is normally in the evening when people are done with work [3]. [1] https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/confronting-duck-curve-how-address-over-generation-solar-energy https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/confronting-duck-curve-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_curve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_curve [3] https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=42915 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=42915

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

terite 5y ago

> Demand is usually the highest when PV output is also the highest In California, demand peaks are around 6-8pm, well past the peak of solar production. This disparity has a name, the "Duck Curve". You can view the near real-time power demand on the CAISO[1] website. Your region may have a similar way to see live demand. [1] http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/default.aspx http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/default.aspx

skrbjc 5y ago

Not really, the peak is around 6PM when people get home from work, turn on all their lights, tvs, appliances, etc. This will change as well with the push to fully electrify residential homes, which would mean very heavy electricity usage in the evening for heating, electric stoves for cooking, electric dryers, and electric cars being plugged in. https://www.e-education.psu.edu/ebf483/node/534 https://www.e-education.psu.edu/ebf483/node/534