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> Today, we’re announcing a multi-year initiative to build the Privacy Sandbox on Android, with the goal of introducing new, more private advertising solutions.

by cs702 5y ago

> Today, we’re announcing a multi-year initiative to build the Privacy Sandbox on Android, with the goal of introducing new, more private advertising solutions. Translation from corporate-speak: "Today, we’re announcing a multi-year initiative to build a sandbox on Android that makes complete unrestricted access to your data available only to Google, with the goal of introducing new advertising solutions that keep all those pesky third parties, like Facebook and TikTok, outside of Google's garden." Calling it the "Privacy Sandbox" is... unintentionally Orwellian.

jensensbutton 5y ago
Yeah, just like Apple did.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  And Aol, and Skype, and YouTube and Facebook and Yahoo and Microsoft[0]. The domestic surveillance nightmare never ends! We on HN laugh about this stuff and love to make noise about E2EE and whatnot, but the battle was lost decades ago. There's nothing left, privacy is a myth from a different era of the internet. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)#/media/File:Prism_slide_5.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)#/...
  - fsflover 5y ago
    > There's nothing left, privacy is a myth from a different era of the internet. GNU/Linux phones (Librem 5 and Pinephone) are here to help.
    - hughrr 5y ago
      Well they would be if anyone actually owned them.
- hunterb123 5y ago
  Apple isn't an ad company. Yes they have access to your data if it's not E2EE, but you don't have to worry about their core revenue stream conflicting with your privacy.
  - joao_lopes 5y ago
    But Apple does have an ad-network, and they do sell access to it. It might not be Google/Facebook-level yet, but nothing stops them from continuing that path as a means to generate more revenue in the future. https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2021/10/19/apples-ad-network-is-the-biggest-beneficiary-of-apples-new-marketing-rules-report/?sh=4bef7b5177a0 https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2021/10/19/apples-... https://searchads.apple.com/ https://searchads.apple.com/
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      There was a time when Apple wasn't an iTunes company, and then that started making them obscene profits. There was a time when Apple wasn't an App Store company, and then that started making them obscene profits. So yes, there is a time now when Apple isn't an ad company. We'll see how that goes.
    - 1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
      People always seem to ignore the obvious. In addition to advertising, Apple partners with third parties to sell stuff "directly" (with Apple as the middleman) to the computer owner after the sale of the computer is complete. Apple takes a cut. Music, e-books, software, etc. Apple wants credit card numbers for future use; most purchasers comply. Buy stuff using an Apple computer and Apple makes money. There once was a time when Apple computers were just computers, not an intended means for capturing further revenue after purchase by partnering with media companies and other sellers. There was no mandatory data collection after purchase. No submission of credit card numbers. I still have one of those Apple computers. The company changed. Whether that was in response to what other companies were doing, e.g., Google, "changes in the industry", etc., is left as a question for the reader. A patent application from Apple some years ago described advertising embedded into the operating ssystem. (Imagine the computer refusing to boot until the user has viewed an ad.) Perhaps we could tell ourselves Steve Jobs was trying to protect computer owners from advertising by filing for claims to the most annoying advertising tactics imaginable, with the intent to never practice these inventions and to sue alleged infringers. No doubt online commenters will have more cogent explanations of what this application represents. http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1="20090265214".PGNR.&OS=DN/20090265214&RS=DN/20090265214 http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=H...
black_puppydog 5y ago
lol, unintentionally. yeah :D
dudus 5y ago
From the announcement: > We’re also committed to working closely with regulators. We’ve offered public commitments for our Privacy Sandbox efforts on the web, including ensuring that we don’t give preferential treatment to Google's ads products or sites. We'll apply these principles to our Android work as well, and continue working with the U.K. Competition and Markets Authority, and others.
ryandvm 5y ago
That's an insightful take, but to be fair, it's still a massive improvement as far as the end users are concerned. It's kind of like suggesting that "reducing the number of people peeing in the pool to ONE" isn't a good thing. It is (unless you're a former pool pee-er).
dang 5y ago
If there's an accurate third-party source, we can change to that. Corporate press releases don't make the best HN submissions (this is a kind of exception to HN's original source rule). https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=corporate%20press%20release%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
- Krasnol 5y ago
  > Corporate press releases don't make the best HN submissions They do if they come from Apple though and it's quite funny especially with this news.
  - dang 5y ago
    Not sure what you mean, but we don't care which corporation a corporate press release comes from.
    - Krasnol 5y ago
      Those participating seem to though or how would you explain the overly overblown popularity of posts from apple compared to this one for example?
      - iqanq 5y ago
        After so many years people love apple products much more than they love google products.
        Krasnol 5y ago
      - dang 5y ago
        Perhaps Apple does a better job of making corporate press releases appealing, but I think the more likely explanation is that this perception is just an illusion. Everyone thinks that the stuff they dislike gets more attention and more favorable treatment. This is the driving dynamic behind perceptions of ideological bias, too. I wrote a bunch about this yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30351677 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30351677 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30346954 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30346954 and there is a large quantity of past explanations here: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20dislike%20notice&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
kllrnohj 5y ago
There's a ton of details on: https://developer.android.com/design-for-safety/ads https://developer.android.com/design-for-safety/ads If you feel like revising your hot take based on the provided designs instead of pulling a single sentence out of a PR snippet that's just announcing a dozen-page design proposal.
- cs702 5y ago
  Thank you. I do think the people behind this are making a sincere effort to reconcile profit-driven targeted advertising with the human right to privacy -- which may not be possible, at least not without sacrificing a lot of revenues. The thing is, I doubt a corporation like Google will ever be willing to sacrifice revenue for the sake of privacy, and at the end of the day, the corporation controls the underlying software infrastructure on all Android-branded devices.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by cs702 5y ago

jensensbutton 5y ago

Yeah, just like Apple did.

smoldesu 5y ago
And Aol, and Skype, and YouTube and Facebook and Yahoo and Microsoft[0]. The domestic surveillance nightmare never ends! We on HN laugh about this stuff and love to make noise about E2EE and whatnot, but the battle was lost decades ago. There's nothing left, privacy is a myth from a different era of the internet. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)#/media/File:Prism_slide_5.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)#/...
- fsflover 5y ago
  > There's nothing left, privacy is a myth from a different era of the internet. GNU/Linux phones (Librem 5 and Pinephone) are here to help.
  - hughrr 5y ago
    Well they would be if anyone actually owned them.
hunterb123 5y ago
Apple isn't an ad company. Yes they have access to your data if it's not E2EE, but you don't have to worry about their core revenue stream conflicting with your privacy.
- joao_lopes 5y ago
  But Apple does have an ad-network, and they do sell access to it. It might not be Google/Facebook-level yet, but nothing stops them from continuing that path as a means to generate more revenue in the future. https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2021/10/19/apples-ad-network-is-the-biggest-beneficiary-of-apples-new-marketing-rules-report/?sh=4bef7b5177a0 https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2021/10/19/apples-... https://searchads.apple.com/ https://searchads.apple.com/
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    There was a time when Apple wasn't an iTunes company, and then that started making them obscene profits. There was a time when Apple wasn't an App Store company, and then that started making them obscene profits. So yes, there is a time now when Apple isn't an ad company. We'll see how that goes.
  - 1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
    People always seem to ignore the obvious. In addition to advertising, Apple partners with third parties to sell stuff "directly" (with Apple as the middleman) to the computer owner after the sale of the computer is complete. Apple takes a cut. Music, e-books, software, etc. Apple wants credit card numbers for future use; most purchasers comply. Buy stuff using an Apple computer and Apple makes money. There once was a time when Apple computers were just computers, not an intended means for capturing further revenue after purchase by partnering with media companies and other sellers. There was no mandatory data collection after purchase. No submission of credit card numbers. I still have one of those Apple computers. The company changed. Whether that was in response to what other companies were doing, e.g., Google, "changes in the industry", etc., is left as a question for the reader. A patent application from Apple some years ago described advertising embedded into the operating ssystem. (Imagine the computer refusing to boot until the user has viewed an ad.) Perhaps we could tell ourselves Steve Jobs was trying to protect computer owners from advertising by filing for claims to the most annoying advertising tactics imaginable, with the intent to never practice these inventions and to sue alleged infringers. No doubt online commenters will have more cogent explanations of what this application represents. http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1="20090265214".PGNR.&OS=DN/20090265214&RS=DN/20090265214 http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=H...

black_puppydog 5y ago

lol, unintentionally. yeah :D

dudus 5y ago

From the announcement: > We’re also committed to working closely with regulators. We’ve offered public commitments for our Privacy Sandbox efforts on the web, including ensuring that we don’t give preferential treatment to Google's ads products or sites. We'll apply these principles to our Android work as well, and continue working with the U.K. Competition and Markets Authority, and others.

ryandvm 5y ago

That's an insightful take, but to be fair, it's still a massive improvement as far as the end users are concerned. It's kind of like suggesting that "reducing the number of people peeing in the pool to ONE" isn't a good thing. It is (unless you're a former pool pee-er).

dang 5y ago

If there's an accurate third-party source, we can change to that. Corporate press releases don't make the best HN submissions (this is a kind of exception to HN's original source rule). https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=corporate%20press%20release%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

Krasnol 5y ago
> Corporate press releases don't make the best HN submissions They do if they come from Apple though and it's quite funny especially with this news.
- dang 5y ago
  Not sure what you mean, but we don't care which corporation a corporate press release comes from.
  - Krasnol 5y ago
    Those participating seem to though or how would you explain the overly overblown popularity of posts from apple compared to this one for example?
    - iqanq 5y ago
      After so many years people love apple products much more than they love google products.
      - Krasnol 5y ago
    - dang 5y ago
      Perhaps Apple does a better job of making corporate press releases appealing, but I think the more likely explanation is that this perception is just an illusion. Everyone thinks that the stuff they dislike gets more attention and more favorable treatment. This is the driving dynamic behind perceptions of ideological bias, too. I wrote a bunch about this yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30351677 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30351677 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30346954 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30346954 and there is a large quantity of past explanations here: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20dislike%20notice&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

kllrnohj 5y ago

There's a ton of details on: https://developer.android.com/design-for-safety/ads https://developer.android.com/design-for-safety/ads If you feel like revising your hot take based on the provided designs instead of pulling a single sentence out of a PR snippet that's just announcing a dozen-page design proposal.

cs702 5y ago
Thank you. I do think the people behind this are making a sincere effort to reconcile profit-driven targeted advertising with the human right to privacy -- which may not be possible, at least not without sacrificing a lot of revenues. The thing is, I doubt a corporation like Google will ever be willing to sacrifice revenue for the sake of privacy, and at the end of the day, the corporation controls the underlying software infrastructure on all Android-branded devices.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]