6 ms·

Not sure how many new users last colorways experiment has brought, but I think Mozilla should prioritize working on actual browser features to catch up with Chr

by butz 5y ago

Not sure how many new users last colorways experiment has brought, but I think Mozilla should prioritize working on actual browser features to catch up with Chrome. There are still problems with chat/video conferencing apps, e.g. MS Teams, that work even on Safari. And there are smaller things too: https://wpt.fyi/compat2021?feature=summary https://wpt.fyi/compat2021?feature=summary

gtirloni 5y ago
It's not either/or. They can do both. AFAIK, marketing people aren't coding C/C++/Rust browser engines so they're free to do their own thing.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  Marketing people aren't free either. I'd rather have that money go towards browser development.
  - afavour 5y ago
    Marketing people can be free if their work generates enough revenue for the company that it exceeds their salary. They can literally be profit generators. Same goes for any employee, really.
    - dleslie 5y ago
      That reasoning applies to all employees, of all roles. However, the behaviour of certain employees can undermine the profitability of others. Mozilla appears to be on the path of being a reseller of services and marketer of brands, at the expense of attracting FOSS developers.
- dleslie 5y ago
  Mozilla let go a large number of developers recently.
  - dralley 5y ago
    They were, for the most part, not Firefox developers though. Most of them were working full time on Rust or research projects like Servo.
    - dleslie 5y ago
      Servo was the experimental renderer that may have become the future renderer for Firefox. Without an experimental/skunkworks team the development of Firefox will remain iterative and focused on maintenance and feature parity. Firing the Servo team was Firefox tapping out. That's it. From here on out expect it to be nothing more than a vehicle to serve comarketing needs of the broader Mozilla organization.
      - dralley 5y ago
        I have commits in the Servo project, I know what it is. Probably better than you do. The parts of Servo that could easily be integrated in Firefox are already integrated into Firefox. The remaining parts, like the layout engine for example, had a lot of design flaws and they were in the early stages of completely rewriting it when the project was cancelled. https://github.com/servo/servo/wiki/Layout-2020 https://github.com/servo/servo/wiki/Layout-2020 So when you say "may have been", that needs to be read with the understanding that it literally would have been years before that investment _might_ pay off, and that's a hard sell when everyone is screaming that Firefox ought to be improved now. I'm disappointed about it nonetheless though, it was a fun and welcoming project for outsiders. And I thought that Pathfinder was pretty close to being usable, so that's disappointing too.
        dleslie 5y ago
        I understood that those flaws existed. If Servo were just an iterative improvement those flaws would be scandalous, but the flaws are to be expected because it was a radical experiment. The whole point of having an experimental feature team is to have someone working on things that may not pay off, because some of the time those efforts will push the product forward by strides; AFAIK, Mozilla has no such team for Firefox anymore. Those opportunities to easily integrate experimental-borne improvements simply no longer exist for Mozilla. Firefox is a dead product; there's no serious efforts underway to meaningfully improve its user share. Mozilla is obviously, openly pivoting its focus towards other services and goals.
tehbeard 5y ago
Shhhh, this money's going to a good cause. Namely middle management bonuses... /s
ramesh31 5y ago
>but I think Mozilla should prioritize working on actual browser features to catch up with Chrome. But how would that promote Mozilla's brand awareness while generating corporate synergy?
SubiculumCode 5y ago
Firefox is already as good or better than Chrome. In the long HN thread from a few days ago the consensus was that Mozilla should focus on Firefox and actively engage in promoting Firefox to increase market share. Here Mozilla is clearly doing that and very well IMO, and now its "stop wasting money blah blah blah." It just so easy to tear people down, that listening to it is usually a waste of time.
- dleslie 5y ago
  > Firefox is already as good or better than Chrome. I've been a Firefox user since its inception, but I don't think it's better than Chrome and it hasn't been for a very long time. Chrome is faster on all the devices I've tried it on, and by default it serves less telemetry to external sources than default Firefox does. It also supports uBlock, Decentraleyes, et cetera and de-Googled forks, like Chromium, are easily available.
  - curt15 5y ago
    uBlock origin is incompatible with the upcoming Manifestv3.
    - dleslie 5y ago
      That's a bummer; will that effect all chrome-based browsers?
      - deadbunny 5y ago
        Most likely. I can't see any of the open source projects having the resources to maintain backwards compatibility for anything Google doesn't want.
  - 8note 5y ago
    I use Firefox because the unlock support on Chrome is patchy. I still use Chrome for desktop mostly, but never on other platforms
  - 5y ago
muizelaar 5y ago
Does MS Teams actually work in Safari? I was under the impression that it was Chrome/Edge only.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  I believe it does if you disable the tracking protection. The disgusting mess that is Microsoft auth relies on dozens of separate domains and I guess ITP blocks cross-domain cookie access. I don't know of a way to disable it per-site though so you either have to use a separate browser or severely compromise your privacy by disabling it globally.
- butz 5y ago
  While some features does not work on Safari, at least it allows joining call and participating with voice chat. Opening Teams meeting link on Firefox doesn't even display "Continue on this browser" button.

by butz 5y ago

gtirloni 5y ago

It's not either/or. They can do both. AFAIK, marketing people aren't coding C/C++/Rust browser engines so they're free to do their own thing.

Nextgrid 5y ago
Marketing people aren't free either. I'd rather have that money go towards browser development.
- afavour 5y ago
  Marketing people can be free if their work generates enough revenue for the company that it exceeds their salary. They can literally be profit generators. Same goes for any employee, really.
  - dleslie 5y ago
    That reasoning applies to all employees, of all roles. However, the behaviour of certain employees can undermine the profitability of others. Mozilla appears to be on the path of being a reseller of services and marketer of brands, at the expense of attracting FOSS developers.
dleslie 5y ago
Mozilla let go a large number of developers recently.
- dralley 5y ago
  They were, for the most part, not Firefox developers though. Most of them were working full time on Rust or research projects like Servo.
  - dleslie 5y ago
    Servo was the experimental renderer that may have become the future renderer for Firefox. Without an experimental/skunkworks team the development of Firefox will remain iterative and focused on maintenance and feature parity. Firing the Servo team was Firefox tapping out. That's it. From here on out expect it to be nothing more than a vehicle to serve comarketing needs of the broader Mozilla organization.
    - dralley 5y ago
      I have commits in the Servo project, I know what it is. Probably better than you do. The parts of Servo that could easily be integrated in Firefox are already integrated into Firefox. The remaining parts, like the layout engine for example, had a lot of design flaws and they were in the early stages of completely rewriting it when the project was cancelled. https://github.com/servo/servo/wiki/Layout-2020 https://github.com/servo/servo/wiki/Layout-2020 So when you say "may have been", that needs to be read with the understanding that it literally would have been years before that investment _might_ pay off, and that's a hard sell when everyone is screaming that Firefox ought to be improved now. I'm disappointed about it nonetheless though, it was a fun and welcoming project for outsiders. And I thought that Pathfinder was pretty close to being usable, so that's disappointing too.
      - dleslie 5y ago
        I understood that those flaws existed. If Servo were just an iterative improvement those flaws would be scandalous, but the flaws are to be expected because it was a radical experiment. The whole point of having an experimental feature team is to have someone working on things that may not pay off, because some of the time those efforts will push the product forward by strides; AFAIK, Mozilla has no such team for Firefox anymore. Those opportunities to easily integrate experimental-borne improvements simply no longer exist for Mozilla. Firefox is a dead product; there's no serious efforts underway to meaningfully improve its user share. Mozilla is obviously, openly pivoting its focus towards other services and goals.

tehbeard 5y ago

Shhhh, this money's going to a good cause. Namely middle management bonuses... /s

ramesh31 5y ago

>but I think Mozilla should prioritize working on actual browser features to catch up with Chrome. But how would that promote Mozilla's brand awareness while generating corporate synergy?

SubiculumCode 5y ago

Firefox is already as good or better than Chrome. In the long HN thread from a few days ago the consensus was that Mozilla should focus on Firefox and actively engage in promoting Firefox to increase market share. Here Mozilla is clearly doing that and very well IMO, and now its "stop wasting money blah blah blah." It just so easy to tear people down, that listening to it is usually a waste of time.

dleslie 5y ago
> Firefox is already as good or better than Chrome. I've been a Firefox user since its inception, but I don't think it's better than Chrome and it hasn't been for a very long time. Chrome is faster on all the devices I've tried it on, and by default it serves less telemetry to external sources than default Firefox does. It also supports uBlock, Decentraleyes, et cetera and de-Googled forks, like Chromium, are easily available.
- curt15 5y ago
  uBlock origin is incompatible with the upcoming Manifestv3.
  - dleslie 5y ago
    That's a bummer; will that effect all chrome-based browsers?
    - deadbunny 5y ago
      Most likely. I can't see any of the open source projects having the resources to maintain backwards compatibility for anything Google doesn't want.
- 8note 5y ago
  I use Firefox because the unlock support on Chrome is patchy. I still use Chrome for desktop mostly, but never on other platforms
- 5y ago

muizelaar 5y ago

Does MS Teams actually work in Safari? I was under the impression that it was Chrome/Edge only.

Nextgrid 5y ago
I believe it does if you disable the tracking protection. The disgusting mess that is Microsoft auth relies on dozens of separate domains and I guess ITP blocks cross-domain cookie access. I don't know of a way to disable it per-site though so you either have to use a separate browser or severely compromise your privacy by disabling it globally.
butz 5y ago
While some features does not work on Safari, at least it allows joining call and participating with voice chat. Opening Teams meeting link on Firefox doesn't even display "Continue on this browser" button.