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Why not? It’s all just a wordplay anyway. Phrase “im proud of <something>” means nothing. It how people act that matters. And there is no direct link between b

Why not? It’s all just a wordplay anyway. Phrase “im proud of <something>” means nothing. It how people act that matters. And there is no direct link between being proud and acting in a certain manner… so who cares :)

lolsal 5y ago
> Phrase “im proud of <something>” means nothing. ... yes it does. I'm proud of losing 5lbs and accomplishing a goal I set for myself. The feelings I have when I utter that statements are real, whether I act differently (beyond uttering it) to anyone about it or not.
dpark 5y ago
> And there is no direct link between being proud and acting in a certain manner… I’m pretty sure that’s entirely untrue. Pride and shame are opposite sides of the same very powerful motivating force.
- aristofun 5y ago
  > Pride and shame are opposite sides of the same very powerful motivating force. Right. But there are no rules about what exactly it motivates you to. Same pride can motivate someone to kill, others — to do charity.
  - dpark 5y ago
    Oh. You’re using pride as a generic term and treating all pride as equivalent. This is a meaningless way to look at the idea of pride. Pride is directed. A person doesn’t just feel pride, they feel pride about something. Analyzing anger the way you have pride would yield the same idea, that anger is nearly meaningless, or at least lacking in any predictive value. Without discussing where the emotion is directed, yeah, it can’t tell us much about what the action the emotion encourages. Once you start discussion the object of someone’s pride, the actions become more obvious. Proud of your kid? You’re a lot more likely to reward them. Proud of your job? You’re more likely to talk about it. Proud of your country? You’re probably more likely to demand policies that you see as elevating your country above others.
    - aristofun 5y ago
      Okay what’s the “correct” outcome of pride for your genes?
      - dpark 5y ago
        Who said anything about “correct”? I would expect that those who feel pride in their genes are more likely to demonstrate confident behaviors than those who are not. For less positive behaviors, I would expect that some people proud of their genes might treat others without similar genetic gifts poorly. In extreme cases, pride in one’s genes would almost certainly result in overt racism.
        aristofun 5y ago
        What do you base this upon? Why are people confident about their genes not more prone to feel responsible and compassionate to others’ less lucky ones’ needs, just like many rich people donate great sums of money to charity (in extreme cases) or famous musicians giving charity shows?
        dpark 5y ago
        These are great questions. And it’s worthwhile to note that different displays of pride are certainly possible. This doesn’t necessarily imply that pride has no predictive power. It seems to indicate instead that different types of pride manifest differently. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6209642/#!po=0.526316 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6209642/#!po=0.... Authentic pride is experienced when the attribution of success is internal, unstable, and controllable (Lewis, 2007; Tracy et al., 2009). Authentic pride is associated with extraversion, agreeableness, conscientiousness, satisfying social relationships, high self-esteem, prosocial behaviors, achievement-orientation and mental health (Tracy and Robins, 2007a,b; Tracy et al., 2009; Cheng et al., 2010). Hubristic pride is experienced if the attribution of success is external, stable, and uncontrollable (Lewis, 2007; Tracy et al., 2009). In contrast to authentic pride, it is related to more antisocial and aggressive behaviors. It is associated with disagreeableness, neuroticism, lack of conscientiousness, narcissism, problematic relationships, and poor mental health outcomes (Tracy and Robins, 2007a,b; Tracy et al., 2009; Cheng et al., 2010). In this Taxonomy, genetic pride would be hubristic so this paper would imply that it has some likely negative effects. I am in no way an expert in this and would be happy to see evidence against my expectations. But it was not hard to find scholarly papers supporting the gist of what I said.

lolsal 5y ago

> Phrase “im proud of <something>” means nothing. ... yes it does. I'm proud of losing 5lbs and accomplishing a goal I set for myself. The feelings I have when I utter that statements are real, whether I act differently (beyond uttering it) to anyone about it or not.

dpark 5y ago

> And there is no direct link between being proud and acting in a certain manner… I’m pretty sure that’s entirely untrue. Pride and shame are opposite sides of the same very powerful motivating force.

aristofun 5y ago
> Pride and shame are opposite sides of the same very powerful motivating force. Right. But there are no rules about what exactly it motivates you to. Same pride can motivate someone to kill, others — to do charity.
- dpark 5y ago
  Oh. You’re using pride as a generic term and treating all pride as equivalent. This is a meaningless way to look at the idea of pride. Pride is directed. A person doesn’t just feel pride, they feel pride about something. Analyzing anger the way you have pride would yield the same idea, that anger is nearly meaningless, or at least lacking in any predictive value. Without discussing where the emotion is directed, yeah, it can’t tell us much about what the action the emotion encourages. Once you start discussion the object of someone’s pride, the actions become more obvious. Proud of your kid? You’re a lot more likely to reward them. Proud of your job? You’re more likely to talk about it. Proud of your country? You’re probably more likely to demand policies that you see as elevating your country above others.
  - aristofun 5y ago
    Okay what’s the “correct” outcome of pride for your genes?
    - dpark 5y ago
      Who said anything about “correct”? I would expect that those who feel pride in their genes are more likely to demonstrate confident behaviors than those who are not. For less positive behaviors, I would expect that some people proud of their genes might treat others without similar genetic gifts poorly. In extreme cases, pride in one’s genes would almost certainly result in overt racism.
      - aristofun 5y ago
        What do you base this upon? Why are people confident about their genes not more prone to feel responsible and compassionate to others’ less lucky ones’ needs, just like many rich people donate great sums of money to charity (in extreme cases) or famous musicians giving charity shows?
        dpark 5y ago
        These are great questions. And it’s worthwhile to note that different displays of pride are certainly possible. This doesn’t necessarily imply that pride has no predictive power. It seems to indicate instead that different types of pride manifest differently. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6209642/#!po=0.526316 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6209642/#!po=0.... Authentic pride is experienced when the attribution of success is internal, unstable, and controllable (Lewis, 2007; Tracy et al., 2009). Authentic pride is associated with extraversion, agreeableness, conscientiousness, satisfying social relationships, high self-esteem, prosocial behaviors, achievement-orientation and mental health (Tracy and Robins, 2007a,b; Tracy et al., 2009; Cheng et al., 2010). Hubristic pride is experienced if the attribution of success is external, stable, and uncontrollable (Lewis, 2007; Tracy et al., 2009). In contrast to authentic pride, it is related to more antisocial and aggressive behaviors. It is associated with disagreeableness, neuroticism, lack of conscientiousness, narcissism, problematic relationships, and poor mental health outcomes (Tracy and Robins, 2007a,b; Tracy et al., 2009; Cheng et al., 2010). In this Taxonomy, genetic pride would be hubristic so this paper would imply that it has some likely negative effects. I am in no way an expert in this and would be happy to see evidence against my expectations. But it was not hard to find scholarly papers supporting the gist of what I said.