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I'm equally puzzled by how people can feel proud of something they did not achieve personally (ex: the history of their country, the result of their favorite sp

by csdvrx 5y ago

I'm equally puzzled by how people can feel proud of something they did not achieve personally (ex: the history of their country, the result of their favorite sport team) or food items that are "traditional" while better alternatives exist (ex: I had french friends talking at length about how overroasted/burnt french expresso cafe creme is better than a flat white, or how seedless grapes can't be as good) or even having some health issue (some guys told me they are proud to be bald. ok??) People seem to derive utility from membership in a social group, or conforming to this group prescriptions ("thou shalt not like Australian coffee???") so I believe this is just an extension at the gene level.

dpark 5y ago
> even having some health issue (some guys told me they are proud to be bald. ok??) Baldness is not a health issue. > I'm equally puzzled by how people can feel proud of something they did not achieve personally It would probably be illustrative for you to make a list of your accomplishments that you are proud of and then ask yourself how much is actually due to your efforts. Like many here, I’m a successful software engineer. I’m proud of this but realistically this is primarily down to luck. Lucky to be reasonably intelligent. Lucky to be born into a family with enough money that I could pursue education. Lucky to have been raised to have a decent work ethic. Lucky to be born into this time period. Lucky to be born reasonably healthy. Lucky to be human. Compared to all the luck, my actual hard work is almost inconsequential.
- csdvrx 5y ago
  > I’m proud of this but realistically this is primarily down to luck. I don't buy this trend of looking at everything through the myopic lens of privilege. Lots of people have had the same luck as you and I, yet have achieved nothing > Compared to all the luck, my actual hard work is almost inconsequential. There are necessary and sufficient conditions. As the saying does, "Luck favors the prepared mind." Some of the "lucks" you have listed are necessary conditions ("Lucky to be born reasonably healthy. Lucky to be human." If you're born a dolphin or with a disease that kills you before you turn 15, you won't get to be a "successful software engineer) Some are neither necessary not sufficient (money to pursue education + work ethic: I know very lazy yet very successful coders that don't have a single diploma in their name) > Compared to all the luck, my actual hard work is almost inconsequential. And yet, it's the one you have control with (you can decide to work more or less or not at all). By extension, I can't understand taking pride in something totally outside of your control ("I'm proud to be human!") or non sensical ("I'm proud to be lucky!")
  - dpark 5y ago
    I’m curious what you see as responsible for success as a software engineer. You assert that the “luck” is an uninteresting factor because it’s outside of our control. But you also assert that hard work isn’t necessary. So are you saying it’s just intelligence? Because that’s certainly not something we actually control.
    - csdvrx 5y ago
      I don't think I have any good explanation for the causality. Some people only need their intelligence. Other people need hard work. You can't control some factors, but you can control others. I think we should focus on the later, as they're more actionable.
      - dpark 5y ago
        Almost sounds like you’re saying it’s mostly just luck…
        csdvrx 5y ago
        And it seems you want to make me say it's just luck, so you can feel good about yourself. Maybe that's because the opposite would imply some didn't get what they deserved? Most people want to impose human values like fairness on something like life, that isn't even human but mostly random. So think whatever you want.
        dpark 5y ago
        You entered the conversation to dispute my assertion that it’s mostly luck and you landed in a place where you are unable to identify a relevant element that isn’t luck. Maybe you should reflect a bit here. I engaged with you in good faith and you end the conversation by essentially attacking my ego because your point fell apart.

by csdvrx 5y ago

dpark 5y ago

> even having some health issue (some guys told me they are proud to be bald. ok??) Baldness is not a health issue. > I'm equally puzzled by how people can feel proud of something they did not achieve personally It would probably be illustrative for you to make a list of your accomplishments that you are proud of and then ask yourself how much is actually due to your efforts. Like many here, I’m a successful software engineer. I’m proud of this but realistically this is primarily down to luck. Lucky to be reasonably intelligent. Lucky to be born into a family with enough money that I could pursue education. Lucky to have been raised to have a decent work ethic. Lucky to be born into this time period. Lucky to be born reasonably healthy. Lucky to be human. Compared to all the luck, my actual hard work is almost inconsequential.

csdvrx 5y ago
> I’m proud of this but realistically this is primarily down to luck. I don't buy this trend of looking at everything through the myopic lens of privilege. Lots of people have had the same luck as you and I, yet have achieved nothing > Compared to all the luck, my actual hard work is almost inconsequential. There are necessary and sufficient conditions. As the saying does, "Luck favors the prepared mind." Some of the "lucks" you have listed are necessary conditions ("Lucky to be born reasonably healthy. Lucky to be human." If you're born a dolphin or with a disease that kills you before you turn 15, you won't get to be a "successful software engineer) Some are neither necessary not sufficient (money to pursue education + work ethic: I know very lazy yet very successful coders that don't have a single diploma in their name) > Compared to all the luck, my actual hard work is almost inconsequential. And yet, it's the one you have control with (you can decide to work more or less or not at all). By extension, I can't understand taking pride in something totally outside of your control ("I'm proud to be human!") or non sensical ("I'm proud to be lucky!")
- dpark 5y ago
  I’m curious what you see as responsible for success as a software engineer. You assert that the “luck” is an uninteresting factor because it’s outside of our control. But you also assert that hard work isn’t necessary. So are you saying it’s just intelligence? Because that’s certainly not something we actually control.
  - csdvrx 5y ago
    I don't think I have any good explanation for the causality. Some people only need their intelligence. Other people need hard work. You can't control some factors, but you can control others. I think we should focus on the later, as they're more actionable.
    - dpark 5y ago
      Almost sounds like you’re saying it’s mostly just luck…
      - csdvrx 5y ago
        And it seems you want to make me say it's just luck, so you can feel good about yourself. Maybe that's because the opposite would imply some didn't get what they deserved? Most people want to impose human values like fairness on something like life, that isn't even human but mostly random. So think whatever you want.
        dpark 5y ago
        You entered the conversation to dispute my assertion that it’s mostly luck and you landed in a place where you are unable to identify a relevant element that isn’t luck. Maybe you should reflect a bit here. I engaged with you in good faith and you end the conversation by essentially attacking my ego because your point fell apart.