3 ms·

Is Junk Food Really Cheaper?

11 points by rafaelc 15y ago

JDShu 15y ago
I'm pretty sure opportunity cost plays a part in the cheapness of fast food. Saying that the time is there because Americans watch a couple of hours of tv is really half-hearted analysis. Additionally, it's not only the time to cook, but also the time needed to travel to grocery stores, which is actually more inconvenient to get to than fast food restaurants in low income neighbourhoods.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
Aspirina 15y ago
As far as I concern, there is always the short and long term time analyses. And in The short run yes, but this short run takes only 5 to 15 minutes. The risks for your health are extremely high producing a higher price for all of us.
lotharbot 15y ago
I'm surprised by how often the "junk food is cheaper than healthy food" meme gets repeated. It seems so obviously false, I can't understand why people believe it when they hear it, and I really struggle to see how it can survive after people give even a back-of-the-envelope calculation in response. What am I missing? Is it that people think "healthy" means organic, out-of-season produce? Are they assuming the cost of a whole bottle of ketchup for each hamburger? Is there some experience people are having that makes this "feel" true? I'd appreciate hearing from someone who believed it up until now -- what was it about this idea that resonated with you?
- patio11 15y ago
  Food has become a statement of moral worth for at least some people. For them, there are morally righteous ways to eat, and other options are sinful. (Swap food for sex if this distinction is a bugbear to wrap your head around.) If you believe that fast food is essentially sinful but also that poor people are essentially good, then there must be a reason why poor people can't eat like righteous people like yourself eat. Hence things like the economic argument.
- chc 15y ago
  Here's how I think it works. Things that cost about $5: - One avocado - One loaf of whole grain bread - One package of low-cal tortillas - A bag of frozen broccoli - Five items off the dollar menu One of these things by itself will feed your family, the others won't.
  - lotharbot 15y ago
    My question on the first four is, where the heck are you shopping? Those are terrible prices. Are those really representative of what you see on a regular basis? Avocados supposedly hit "record" prices of $2.50 each this summer [0]. I get 3 loaves of whole grain bread for $5 at my local grocer. Frozen broccoli is 3-4 pounds for $5 [1]. Low cal tortillas can get up near $5, I guess, if you get the fancy ones in a 10 or 12 pack. Here are a few other things you can get for $5 (all taken from my local grocery ad [2]): - 20 pounds of potatoes - 3.5 pounds of frozen chicken breasts - 3 pounds of ham - 5+ pounds of produce: tomatoes, carrots, pineapples, squash, etc. - 15 cans of store brand condensed soup It seems to me like, if you're looking to feed the family, your $5 goes a lot more on this list than it does on the dollar menu. A pound of ham, a pound of squash and tomatoes, and a 10 pound bag of potatoes seems like a lot more food than two burgers, two fries, and a tiny salad. It seems to me like, if you can't do better than the dollar menu for feeding your family, you must suck at shopping [3]. Do you think "sucking at shopping" is really what fuels this meme? [0] http://www.thepacker.com/fruit-vegetable-news/Avocado-demand-strong-as-Mexican-season-winds-down-123635079.html http://www.thepacker.com/fruit-vegetable-news/Avocado-demand... [1] http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/FruitVegetableCosts/ http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/FruitVegetableCosts/ has some fantastic data [2] http://www.benewsjournal.com/Kent%27s%20Ads/Kent%27sBRIGHAM09-21.pdf http://www.benewsjournal.com/Kent%27s%20Ads/Kent%27sBRIGHAM0... -- as for cost of living, prices out here are higher than they were in Seattle. Housing is cheap, but groceries are not. [3] one of my friends who was on government assistance really did suck at shopping. I once went with him and convinced him to replace 10 pounds of meat (of the 20 in his cart) with a big bag of potatoes, as well as bulk carrots and such. At the end of the month, he was delighted that he still had food and had a little money left over.
    - chc 15y ago
tzs 15y ago
I wonder if we should make basic cooking a required class in high school? Even if people who would otherwise eat fast/junk food every night would cook at home just a couple nights a week, it would probably make a noticeable improvement in our overall health. There are some basic dishes that are very quick and easy to make, and very cheap. For example, consider spaghetti. A box of dry spaghetti is cheap and has a very long shelf life, and is quick and easy to cook (boil water, drop in spaghetti, turn heat down slightly--read HN on your mobile device for 10 minutes, occasionally stirring the spaghetti). Drain, put on plate. Pour on some bottled sauce that you've heated up (go ahead and use the microwave). Congratulations--you've now made an alternative to your usual Big Mac, in 10 minutes, and it cost you under $0.50.
- tptacek 15y ago
  They teach basic cooking in middle school in Chicago. Much is made of food availability and "food deserts" and the like, but the real issue is time. Even "very quick" meals take more time & effort than fast food. It's particularly the case when you're cooking for a family. Fast food is practically guaranteed to be palatable, but taking a box of dry spaghetti and making it palatable to 4 different palates takes some doing.
noahc 15y ago
I was talking with a German about what he thought America's national rallying cry was. He said, "In America, everyone is an aristocrat" He pointed out that we all drive big cars and in Germany you can't drive a big car without means. He also pointed out that in America we all hunt (remember the kings deer) and fish as if it were a God given right. I think to some extent the fast food issue is the same here. We like fast food, because people are serving us. We don't need to cook. It goes back to our desire for everyone to be an Aristocrat or at least feel that way.

11 points by rafaelc 15y ago

JDShu 15y ago

I'm pretty sure opportunity cost plays a part in the cheapness of fast food. Saying that the time is there because Americans watch a couple of hours of tv is really half-hearted analysis. Additionally, it's not only the time to cook, but also the time needed to travel to grocery stores, which is actually more inconvenient to get to than fast food restaurants in low income neighbourhoods.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

Aspirina 15y ago

As far as I concern, there is always the short and long term time analyses. And in The short run yes, but this short run takes only 5 to 15 minutes. The risks for your health are extremely high producing a higher price for all of us.

lotharbot 15y ago

I'm surprised by how often the "junk food is cheaper than healthy food" meme gets repeated. It seems so obviously false, I can't understand why people believe it when they hear it, and I really struggle to see how it can survive after people give even a back-of-the-envelope calculation in response. What am I missing? Is it that people think "healthy" means organic, out-of-season produce? Are they assuming the cost of a whole bottle of ketchup for each hamburger? Is there some experience people are having that makes this "feel" true? I'd appreciate hearing from someone who believed it up until now -- what was it about this idea that resonated with you?

patio11 15y ago
Food has become a statement of moral worth for at least some people. For them, there are morally righteous ways to eat, and other options are sinful. (Swap food for sex if this distinction is a bugbear to wrap your head around.) If you believe that fast food is essentially sinful but also that poor people are essentially good, then there must be a reason why poor people can't eat like righteous people like yourself eat. Hence things like the economic argument.
chc 15y ago
Here's how I think it works. Things that cost about $5: - One avocado - One loaf of whole grain bread - One package of low-cal tortillas - A bag of frozen broccoli - Five items off the dollar menu One of these things by itself will feed your family, the others won't.
- lotharbot 15y ago
  My question on the first four is, where the heck are you shopping? Those are terrible prices. Are those really representative of what you see on a regular basis? Avocados supposedly hit "record" prices of $2.50 each this summer [0]. I get 3 loaves of whole grain bread for $5 at my local grocer. Frozen broccoli is 3-4 pounds for $5 [1]. Low cal tortillas can get up near $5, I guess, if you get the fancy ones in a 10 or 12 pack. Here are a few other things you can get for $5 (all taken from my local grocery ad [2]): - 20 pounds of potatoes - 3.5 pounds of frozen chicken breasts - 3 pounds of ham - 5+ pounds of produce: tomatoes, carrots, pineapples, squash, etc. - 15 cans of store brand condensed soup It seems to me like, if you're looking to feed the family, your $5 goes a lot more on this list than it does on the dollar menu. A pound of ham, a pound of squash and tomatoes, and a 10 pound bag of potatoes seems like a lot more food than two burgers, two fries, and a tiny salad. It seems to me like, if you can't do better than the dollar menu for feeding your family, you must suck at shopping [3]. Do you think "sucking at shopping" is really what fuels this meme? [0] http://www.thepacker.com/fruit-vegetable-news/Avocado-demand-strong-as-Mexican-season-winds-down-123635079.html http://www.thepacker.com/fruit-vegetable-news/Avocado-demand... [1] http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/FruitVegetableCosts/ http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/FruitVegetableCosts/ has some fantastic data [2] http://www.benewsjournal.com/Kent%27s%20Ads/Kent%27sBRIGHAM09-21.pdf http://www.benewsjournal.com/Kent%27s%20Ads/Kent%27sBRIGHAM0... -- as for cost of living, prices out here are higher than they were in Seattle. Housing is cheap, but groceries are not. [3] one of my friends who was on government assistance really did suck at shopping. I once went with him and convinced him to replace 10 pounds of meat (of the 20 in his cart) with a big bag of potatoes, as well as bulk carrots and such. At the end of the month, he was delighted that he still had food and had a little money left over.
  - chc 15y ago

tzs 15y ago

I wonder if we should make basic cooking a required class in high school? Even if people who would otherwise eat fast/junk food every night would cook at home just a couple nights a week, it would probably make a noticeable improvement in our overall health. There are some basic dishes that are very quick and easy to make, and very cheap. For example, consider spaghetti. A box of dry spaghetti is cheap and has a very long shelf life, and is quick and easy to cook (boil water, drop in spaghetti, turn heat down slightly--read HN on your mobile device for 10 minutes, occasionally stirring the spaghetti). Drain, put on plate. Pour on some bottled sauce that you've heated up (go ahead and use the microwave). Congratulations--you've now made an alternative to your usual Big Mac, in 10 minutes, and it cost you under $0.50.

tptacek 15y ago
They teach basic cooking in middle school in Chicago. Much is made of food availability and "food deserts" and the like, but the real issue is time. Even "very quick" meals take more time & effort than fast food. It's particularly the case when you're cooking for a family. Fast food is practically guaranteed to be palatable, but taking a box of dry spaghetti and making it palatable to 4 different palates takes some doing.

noahc 15y ago

I was talking with a German about what he thought America's national rallying cry was. He said, "In America, everyone is an aristocrat" He pointed out that we all drive big cars and in Germany you can't drive a big car without means. He also pointed out that in America we all hunt (remember the kings deer) and fish as if it were a God given right. I think to some extent the fast food issue is the same here. We like fast food, because people are serving us. We don't need to cook. It goes back to our desire for everyone to be an Aristocrat or at least feel that way.