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There's no such thing as a psychological need when it comes to reproduction. The very existence of the person having such needs (which you made up) is based on

by fleddr 5y ago

There's no such thing as a psychological need when it comes to reproduction. The very existence of the person having such needs (which you made up) is based on biological reproduction, which trumps any and all needs. You cannot have needs if you don't exist. Likewise, offspring cannot be a risk to you if you don't exist. The point of life is to reproduce. The point of life before the moment you reproduce is to not die.

_8j50 5y ago
What evidence is there to prove the biological trumps psychological? People can literally starve to death because of a psychological disorder. The desire to see more of one's self and a continuation of one's story is what I am talking about. The point of life is not reproduce, reproduction is a means by which lineage is continued. In order for life to have a point you have to talk about intent behind life, if you believe life is unintended then there is no point to it aside from what sentient beings self-assign it.
- esarbe 5y ago
  > What evidence is there to prove the biological trumps psychological? The psychological is biological. > The point of life is not reproduce, The point of life is the continuation of life - that means reproduction. It might not be your own reproduction, but the reproduction of your genes. That's what the last 3.5billion years of your own cellular existence has been about. > In order for life to have a point you have to talk about intent behind life Life has a point whether you talk about it or not. The point of life is life itself.
- fleddr 5y ago
  The evidence is that you exist, which is solely the result of biological reproduction. Life indeed has no intent other than to continue. That is the point in itself. Quite a lot of species take this reality to the extreme. They die immediately after reproducing. Or, they generate thousands of offspring of which 99.99% dies within the day. Humans, like all species ever, are hard-wired to reproduce. Whatever bullshit story you tell yourself on top of that (opting out, or optin in for wanting to maintain a legacy) are mere fabrications of a mind, only possible in recent luxury times in very particular parts of the world. Some people call this nihilism but I call it freedom. Not only does life other than reproducing have no point, your life is also completely irrelevant at macro level. When you embrace that, you can finally start living.
  - _8j50 5y ago
    Completely disagree. You are speculating or rather, like many these days jumping to a conclusion because you think it is the best approximation based on data you interpreted to mean something. Plenty of people don't want to have children, most people want sex but even then the goal is primarily pleasure. What I dislike about your reasoning is that it is basically "Sex causes reproduction and people like to have sex, therefore people are hardwired to reproduce" in other words "Action X causes result Y therefore people who have a natural desire to commit action X do it because of result Y" . In reality, the action(sex) has many other effects both beneficial and harmful. Another reasoning I hate: "If you do action X you will die, therefore not doing it is a biological trait" this presumes humans can't transcend instincts. As far as I know, we are the only creatures that regularly commit suicide. Our ability to reason and evaluate ourselves and the world around us and desire to seek meaning and purpose gives us a Psychological component unique to us. People can litetally die by willing themselves to death (really!), ask any medical doctor and they'll tell you the will to fight and live in a person can help them overcome or be overcomed by disease. In the military theh have a saying:"If you get shot, don't die." (Thinking you will die will kill you faster than the actual would by itself). Given all that, why would you presume something much less impactful than survival itself is not significantly if not entirely controlled by the mind? I think perhaps you are not considering that psychology isn't restricted to the conscious mind. As far as the purpose of life, I would hate to start a whole other debate but let me just ask you to empirically prove one thing that exists without prior cause or prove the origin of all things then I can take your opinion seriously, until then I think the best you can do is you think that might be the case but you really have no idea if life has a purpose.
    - esarbe 5y ago
      > Plenty of people don't want to have children, [....] In reality, the action(sex) has many other effects both beneficial and harmful. Sex is for reproduction, plain and simple. Any other function - be it societal or psychological - has simply been tacked on. It might feel good to imbue it with some higher purpose, but in the end it is simply to perpetuate the genes. > As far as the purpose of life, [....] you have idea if life has a purpose. The purpose of life is life itself. Not in any eschatological sense, but in the sense that life perpetuates itself to perpetuate life. Because anything that didn't has died out a long time ago and anything that doesn't perpetuate itself will successfully remove itself from the pool of reproducing things. > Our ability to reason and evaluate ourselves [...] unique to us. People [...] die by willing [...] medical doctor and they'll tell you the will to fight and live in a [...] overcomed by disease. People are good at fooling themselves. They can even fool themselves into believing that they are rational actors. But humans are not thinking machines, we're reproduction machines. All the funny "humans are special" stuff is simply an outgrowth of excessive wealth.

by fleddr 5y ago

_8j50 5y ago

What evidence is there to prove the biological trumps psychological? People can literally starve to death because of a psychological disorder. The desire to see more of one's self and a continuation of one's story is what I am talking about. The point of life is not reproduce, reproduction is a means by which lineage is continued. In order for life to have a point you have to talk about intent behind life, if you believe life is unintended then there is no point to it aside from what sentient beings self-assign it.

esarbe 5y ago
> What evidence is there to prove the biological trumps psychological? The psychological is biological. > The point of life is not reproduce, The point of life is the continuation of life - that means reproduction. It might not be your own reproduction, but the reproduction of your genes. That's what the last 3.5billion years of your own cellular existence has been about. > In order for life to have a point you have to talk about intent behind life Life has a point whether you talk about it or not. The point of life is life itself.
fleddr 5y ago
The evidence is that you exist, which is solely the result of biological reproduction. Life indeed has no intent other than to continue. That is the point in itself. Quite a lot of species take this reality to the extreme. They die immediately after reproducing. Or, they generate thousands of offspring of which 99.99% dies within the day. Humans, like all species ever, are hard-wired to reproduce. Whatever bullshit story you tell yourself on top of that (opting out, or optin in for wanting to maintain a legacy) are mere fabrications of a mind, only possible in recent luxury times in very particular parts of the world. Some people call this nihilism but I call it freedom. Not only does life other than reproducing have no point, your life is also completely irrelevant at macro level. When you embrace that, you can finally start living.
- _8j50 5y ago
  Completely disagree. You are speculating or rather, like many these days jumping to a conclusion because you think it is the best approximation based on data you interpreted to mean something. Plenty of people don't want to have children, most people want sex but even then the goal is primarily pleasure. What I dislike about your reasoning is that it is basically "Sex causes reproduction and people like to have sex, therefore people are hardwired to reproduce" in other words "Action X causes result Y therefore people who have a natural desire to commit action X do it because of result Y" . In reality, the action(sex) has many other effects both beneficial and harmful. Another reasoning I hate: "If you do action X you will die, therefore not doing it is a biological trait" this presumes humans can't transcend instincts. As far as I know, we are the only creatures that regularly commit suicide. Our ability to reason and evaluate ourselves and the world around us and desire to seek meaning and purpose gives us a Psychological component unique to us. People can litetally die by willing themselves to death (really!), ask any medical doctor and they'll tell you the will to fight and live in a person can help them overcome or be overcomed by disease. In the military theh have a saying:"If you get shot, don't die." (Thinking you will die will kill you faster than the actual would by itself). Given all that, why would you presume something much less impactful than survival itself is not significantly if not entirely controlled by the mind? I think perhaps you are not considering that psychology isn't restricted to the conscious mind. As far as the purpose of life, I would hate to start a whole other debate but let me just ask you to empirically prove one thing that exists without prior cause or prove the origin of all things then I can take your opinion seriously, until then I think the best you can do is you think that might be the case but you really have no idea if life has a purpose.
  - esarbe 5y ago
    > Plenty of people don't want to have children, [....] In reality, the action(sex) has many other effects both beneficial and harmful. Sex is for reproduction, plain and simple. Any other function - be it societal or psychological - has simply been tacked on. It might feel good to imbue it with some higher purpose, but in the end it is simply to perpetuate the genes. > As far as the purpose of life, [....] you have idea if life has a purpose. The purpose of life is life itself. Not in any eschatological sense, but in the sense that life perpetuates itself to perpetuate life. Because anything that didn't has died out a long time ago and anything that doesn't perpetuate itself will successfully remove itself from the pool of reproducing things. > Our ability to reason and evaluate ourselves [...] unique to us. People [...] die by willing [...] medical doctor and they'll tell you the will to fight and live in a [...] overcomed by disease. People are good at fooling themselves. They can even fool themselves into believing that they are rational actors. But humans are not thinking machines, we're reproduction machines. All the funny "humans are special" stuff is simply an outgrowth of excessive wealth.