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Your privilege is showing. A huge portion of the world is under-banked or completely unbanked. It's one of the largest barriers to quality of life improvement

Your privilege is showing. A huge portion of the world is under-banked or completely unbanked. It's one of the largest barriers to quality of life improvement on the planet. Say what you will about crypto's current state, but mathematically enforced property rights wrapped around a weightless, trustless, and borderless currency solves very real problems for some of the worlds least privileged people.

rzanella 5y ago
Sure, next time an armed militia thug comes around for "taxes" show him your magical numbers. I mean, this huge portion goes straight from "unbanked" to using a convoluted highly technical solution that has high volatility and no legal recourse whatsoever... stonks!
- djschnei 5y ago
  I just envision an old man yelling at clouds. I won't convince you. Maybe go read about some bottom up adoptions of bitcoin in places like Nigeria. Or don't, I don't care. You shouldn't buy any and probably should short it.
- logicalmonster 5y ago
  Speaking of legal recourse, we just recently saw the Government of Canada try and stamp out a form of political protest by trying to arbitrarily freeze participants' bank accounts. Regardless of how you feel about that particular protest, the type of legal recourse many people might think exists with banks might not actually exist, particularly for those who don't toe the line with all of their government's viewpoints, or if there's an actual emergency. As far as high volatility goes, the question you should be asking is "volatility, relative to what"? The rate of Bitcoin "inflation" is known and transparent. Now compare that to the power of the virtual printing press and the effects of inflation on fiat currencies' buying power.
- eric_cc 5y ago
  > this huge portion goes straight from REGULAR MAIL to using a convoluted highly technical EMAIL
democracy 5y ago
Damn that sounded really bull(shit)ish! How do I invest? )
- djschnei 5y ago
  here you go! https://www.investopedia.com/news/short-bitcoin/ https://www.investopedia.com/news/short-bitcoin/
jcranmer 5y ago
> mathematically enforced property rights This is an oxymoron. How can you mathematically enforce a purely social concept? Property rights aren't tangible things; they are creations purely of law and of the societies they inhabit. Can you mathematically enforce that no one build a house on the land I own? That no one picks an apple from my apple tree, except with my permission? I just don't see how cryptocurrency helps the unbanked--what does it bring that M-PESA doesn't bring? Furthermore, how are those benefits worth the externalities of cryptocurrency, specifically the massive energy consumption that undoubtedly fuels the climate change that is slowly worsening the lives of many of the unbanked it's purporting to help?
- djschnei 5y ago
  > This is an oxymoron. How can you mathematically enforce a purely social concept? Property rights aren't tangible things; they are creations purely of law and of the societies they inhabit. Can you mathematically enforce that no one build a house on the land I own? That no one picks an apple from my apple tree, except with my permission? Land or an apple tree aren't natively digital assets. So no, they cannot be cryptographically enforced. Bitcoin is natively digital. If I alone have access to a wallet (i.e. memorized a seed-phrase), my rights to that bitcoin are enforced cryptographically and defended by the power of the network. "Ownership" meaning I have exclusive rights to "spend" them. "Social construct" still absolutely comes into play though. The social construct is money. Bitcoin being money is a manifestation of a social construct. Are you suggesting something being a social construct means that they are not "real"? Because that would be a MUCH larger debate. > I just don't see how cryptocurrency helps the unbanked--what does it bring that M-PESA doesn't bring? A trustless and self-sovereign way to store value? This becomes increasingly important the more corrupt your Government is. For example, if your government wanted to freeze your money because you participated in a protest they don't like. > Furthermore, how are those benefits worth the externalities of cryptocurrency, specifically the massive energy consumption that undoubtedly fuels the climate change that is slowly worsening the lives of many of the unbanked it's purporting to help? Electricity consumption, in and of itself, does not fuel climate change. CO2 emissions do. Also depends on the relative climate cost between one system and the system it looks to replace. For example, electric cars are bad for the environment if you look at them in a vacuum. But, they are better than ICE cars. So they are applauded.
yalogin 5y ago
The problem is the utopia you are envisioning only happens if the whole world is moulded into either one government or no government at all. All those paperless mathematical property rights are constructs of individual governments that are in turn a by product of the borders between geographical places. Crypto only will exist when there is peace and more importantly prosperity, without a network, energy and resources there is no crypto.
- eric_cc 5y ago
  > The problem is the utopia you are envisioning only happens if the whole world is moulded into either one government or no government at all. Now you're thinking! And you're starting to see why crypto is a much bigger deal that it first seems. There are so many "Oh shit, if this then that" moments as you figure out where we're likely headed.
  - yalogin 5y ago
    Not even a little bit. I am saying the exact opposite.

rzanella 5y ago

Sure, next time an armed militia thug comes around for "taxes" show him your magical numbers. I mean, this huge portion goes straight from "unbanked" to using a convoluted highly technical solution that has high volatility and no legal recourse whatsoever... stonks!

djschnei 5y ago
I just envision an old man yelling at clouds. I won't convince you. Maybe go read about some bottom up adoptions of bitcoin in places like Nigeria. Or don't, I don't care. You shouldn't buy any and probably should short it.
logicalmonster 5y ago
Speaking of legal recourse, we just recently saw the Government of Canada try and stamp out a form of political protest by trying to arbitrarily freeze participants' bank accounts. Regardless of how you feel about that particular protest, the type of legal recourse many people might think exists with banks might not actually exist, particularly for those who don't toe the line with all of their government's viewpoints, or if there's an actual emergency. As far as high volatility goes, the question you should be asking is "volatility, relative to what"? The rate of Bitcoin "inflation" is known and transparent. Now compare that to the power of the virtual printing press and the effects of inflation on fiat currencies' buying power.
eric_cc 5y ago
> this huge portion goes straight from REGULAR MAIL to using a convoluted highly technical EMAIL

democracy 5y ago

Damn that sounded really bull(shit)ish! How do I invest? )

djschnei 5y ago
here you go! https://www.investopedia.com/news/short-bitcoin/ https://www.investopedia.com/news/short-bitcoin/

jcranmer 5y ago

> mathematically enforced property rights This is an oxymoron. How can you mathematically enforce a purely social concept? Property rights aren't tangible things; they are creations purely of law and of the societies they inhabit. Can you mathematically enforce that no one build a house on the land I own? That no one picks an apple from my apple tree, except with my permission? I just don't see how cryptocurrency helps the unbanked--what does it bring that M-PESA doesn't bring? Furthermore, how are those benefits worth the externalities of cryptocurrency, specifically the massive energy consumption that undoubtedly fuels the climate change that is slowly worsening the lives of many of the unbanked it's purporting to help?

djschnei 5y ago
> This is an oxymoron. How can you mathematically enforce a purely social concept? Property rights aren't tangible things; they are creations purely of law and of the societies they inhabit. Can you mathematically enforce that no one build a house on the land I own? That no one picks an apple from my apple tree, except with my permission? Land or an apple tree aren't natively digital assets. So no, they cannot be cryptographically enforced. Bitcoin is natively digital. If I alone have access to a wallet (i.e. memorized a seed-phrase), my rights to that bitcoin are enforced cryptographically and defended by the power of the network. "Ownership" meaning I have exclusive rights to "spend" them. "Social construct" still absolutely comes into play though. The social construct is money. Bitcoin being money is a manifestation of a social construct. Are you suggesting something being a social construct means that they are not "real"? Because that would be a MUCH larger debate. > I just don't see how cryptocurrency helps the unbanked--what does it bring that M-PESA doesn't bring? A trustless and self-sovereign way to store value? This becomes increasingly important the more corrupt your Government is. For example, if your government wanted to freeze your money because you participated in a protest they don't like. > Furthermore, how are those benefits worth the externalities of cryptocurrency, specifically the massive energy consumption that undoubtedly fuels the climate change that is slowly worsening the lives of many of the unbanked it's purporting to help? Electricity consumption, in and of itself, does not fuel climate change. CO2 emissions do. Also depends on the relative climate cost between one system and the system it looks to replace. For example, electric cars are bad for the environment if you look at them in a vacuum. But, they are better than ICE cars. So they are applauded.

yalogin 5y ago

The problem is the utopia you are envisioning only happens if the whole world is moulded into either one government or no government at all. All those paperless mathematical property rights are constructs of individual governments that are in turn a by product of the borders between geographical places. Crypto only will exist when there is peace and more importantly prosperity, without a network, energy and resources there is no crypto.

eric_cc 5y ago
> The problem is the utopia you are envisioning only happens if the whole world is moulded into either one government or no government at all. Now you're thinking! And you're starting to see why crypto is a much bigger deal that it first seems. There are so many "Oh shit, if this then that" moments as you figure out where we're likely headed.
- yalogin 5y ago
  Not even a little bit. I am saying the exact opposite.