23 ms·

I don't get the hate on Electron. Is it often bloated? Yes, sure. Has it allowed some of these excellent third party apps to make the move to Linux? Absolutely.

by snide 5y ago

I don't get the hate on Electron. Is it often bloated? Yes, sure. Has it allowed some of these excellent third party apps to make the move to Linux? Absolutely. I've been utterly surprised and excited by how much better 1Password has gotten over the last two years on Linux. We're seeing real parity with the OSX side of the house. Would I love native apps? Again, sure. But I really don't care. It runs pretty fast on my machine and has never really gotten in the way. Also, they have a nice CLI. I'm sure getting some of these features there is only a matter of time.

trvr 5y ago
I think a lot of the hate (myself included) is coming from the fact that we already had a really good native macOS app. Feels like something is being taken away. I do understand where you are coming from with Linux. It's better than what you had, no doubt. But that doesn't feel like the case to us macOS users.
- dangus 5y ago
  What features/usability/performance was lost with the switch to the Electron app? If the answer is "nothing," then really the argument is purely about aesthetics. I didn't even know it was an Electron app until months after I had installed it.
  - somehnguy 5y ago
    I was fully prepared to say 'memory usage' as a kneejerk to Electron. But I decided to open System Monitor real quick and it turns out my 1Password 7 instance is using 201MB itself. Another ~30MB if the helpers are included. My machine has been on for about a week and I invoke 1Password a lot throughout the day + have about 500 entries. How much memory is yours consuming (assuming you're using 8)?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - Y-bar 5y ago
    From my own experience with Electron apps and 1Password beta a few months ago, putting resource usage aside (even if we should not): OS-native spell checking is missing. Lack of OS standard shortcuts. Everything is a single window. UX performance: lots of things has just a little bit longer.
    - roustem 5y ago
      We added spellcheck and text transformations options recently. Our team contributed a few patches to Electron to enable better macOS integration. For example: https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/32024 https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/32024 I believe the UX performance in 1Password 8 is better than any other app we built in the past: https://twitter.com/mitchchn/status/1491253916004147203?s=20 https://twitter.com/mitchchn/status/1491253916004147203?s=20 Would love to learn more about the standard shortcuts that are missing — good keyboard shortcuts is a huge priority to us! -- Roustem 1Password Founder
      - trvr 5y ago
        Not looking for a fight here, but it seems like there is a disconnect between 1Password/AgileBits praising version 8 while also trying to bury the fact that it is an Electron app. It seems like you are proud of what you are building (and that's awesome), but the Releases page for beta [1] doesn't contain the word Electron. 1: https://releases.1password.com/mac/beta/ https://releases.1password.com/mac/beta/
        judge2020 5y ago
        Electron is effectively a UI and code framework, much like SwiftUI or just Swift with AppKit; I don't see why either would need to be a marketing point or referenced in the changelog. 1Password 7[0] doesn't say what it's made in either. 0: https://support.1password.com/explore/whats-new-mac/ https://support.1password.com/explore/whats-new-mac/
        brailsafe 5y ago
  - cytzol 5y ago
    I tried the Electron version six months ago, and I wrote up its weaknesses here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28147305 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28147305 EDIT: I just tried the latest beta, and I'm happy to say that scrolling the list is now much faster! On the other hand, the blurry fonts, the lack of overscroll, the non-native dropdown menus, the inability to view your vault with the Preferences window open, and the lag when resizing the window are all still there. This does not fill me with hope that the final released version is going to be any better.
    - manwe150 5y ago
      I stopped my subscription to LastPass and bought a 1Password subscription because LastPass discontinued their native macOS app and went with an electron wrapper. But the new LastPass client was slow, glitchy, and broke OS integration (It lost a lot of features. I tried to report some of that, and their support team ignored me). The 1Password experience already seems to have more robust features than my experience with LastPass, so I am happy with the switch. I really hope they can preserve all that through the transition, or that they maintain the native client!
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
gspr 5y ago
Because the idea of shipping a goddamn browser for each and every little GUI app is revolting and disturbing. What other crazy decisions have these people made?!
- Galanwe 5y ago
  How is it different than using a GUI framework like Qt or GTK?
  - ylyn 5y ago
    Qt and GTK apps don't usually spawn 5 processes, 300-400 MB of RAM, and take 100+ MB of disk space (because they always ship an entire copy of Electron) just to show a small window.
    - Galanwe 5y ago
      Then it's not electron the problem, it's the way the package was created. There is no reason it couldn't be distributed as a shared library.
  - seanw444 5y ago
    Are we really comparing the bloat of Chromium to Qt & GTK?
  - samarthr1 5y ago
    The runtime is much much smaller, fewer layers of.abstractions away?
  - otabdeveloper4 5y ago
    If each app bundled its own build of Qt then it wouldn't be.
  - gspr 5y ago
    They solve the task at hand (cross-platform GUIs), plus some auxiliary tasks like cross-platform FS access etc etc. That's much cleaner and more principled than "screw it, let's ship a browser".
nopenopenopeno 5y ago
Apparently 1password is developed Linux-first now.
- smcleod 5y ago
  Nah it's browser/javascript first using Electron :(
  - nopenopenopeno 5y ago
    Fair point
SomeHacker44 5y ago
I tried 8 on Windows. I went back to 7 after a week. * Search is just plain broken. This was the number one reason i scrapped it. * Managing multiple vaults (i have over a dozen) is unusable. * The UI is terrible, it takes way more space to show less information than 7. * The browser integration (FF) seemed to work poorly. Basically, once 1Password stops supporting 7, they will have lost me and anyone I can influence as a customer.
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  While I fully agree with your issues, and have experienced them too, (although comparing v8 on Linux to v7 on Mac – I don't use 1Password on Windows), those are just UI/integration issues. I don't think they're because of electron, but rather because the remake of the UI is poor. FWIW, my main gripe is having to unlock each vault separately, as opposed to a single unlock as used to be the case on Mac / iPhone.
  - toyg 5y ago
    > those are just UI/integration issues. I don't think they're because of electron Electron makes integration harder.
    - vladvasiliu 5y ago
      Fair enough, but I expect browser integration and so forth to be done via the backend, which is rust, so native.
      - toyg 5y ago
        Rust is hardly a "desktop-native" language. I expect it will have to jump through all sorts of hoops to interface with the Obj-C underpinnings of MacOS desktop libraries. Regardless, even if the backend were pure Obj-C, the point is still that now you have a UI stack and a backend stack, instead of a single desktop-native stack, and you have to manage their communications. But I guess the money they save by not managing desktop-specific codebases eventually adds up...
Nextgrid 5y ago
With Electron you're one XSS away from your entire password database being stolen.
- sroussey 5y ago
  This is not true (though was an issue around Electron 1.0)
jbverschoor 5y ago
Besides that it's bloated. I really don't want to have my passwords and keys managed by something that's built on a software supply chain, which is so prone to malicious attempts (npm packages). There are way too many deep dependencies and mini packages out there.
otterley 5y ago
Memory is a precious resource. Every additional Electron app that’s running increases the likelihood that your system will have to swap, and then it will feel like a a turtle in a tarpit. Also, there’s some concern that continuous swapping prematurely ages SSDs, reducing the overall lifetime of laptops. The modern trend is to solder storage chips directly to the main board, making them difficult to replace.
- TameAntelope 5y ago
  Memory is not a precious resource, this narrative needs to die an unceremonious death. This isn't the 90s, we live in the future.
  - otterley 5y ago
    Please elaborate to those of us who have actually experienced the “swap swamp” within the last year, in the 2020s, and who have enough systems knowledge to properly instrument this stuff. Are you gaslighting us?
    - TameAntelope 5y ago
      - otterley 5y ago
        This is a non-sequitur. And you haven't actually substantively rebutted my claim (or anyone else's here, for that matter).
        TameAntelope 5y ago
  - xfer 5y ago
    Then why is your cloud provider charging by GB-secs? This is the future after all.
bigpurple 5y ago
> Has it allowed some of these excellent third party apps to make the move to Linux? Absolutely. Has it allowed simple XSS vulnerabilities to turn into full blown RCEs? Absolutely.
Svoka 5y ago
It doesn't integrate with OS. Like events happen differently, stuff like this. Especially for macOS. But again, if one uses some crap from IntelliJ and Slack, this fits right in.

by snide 5y ago

trvr 5y ago

I think a lot of the hate (myself included) is coming from the fact that we already had a really good native macOS app. Feels like something is being taken away. I do understand where you are coming from with Linux. It's better than what you had, no doubt. But that doesn't feel like the case to us macOS users.

dangus 5y ago
What features/usability/performance was lost with the switch to the Electron app? If the answer is "nothing," then really the argument is purely about aesthetics. I didn't even know it was an Electron app until months after I had installed it.
- somehnguy 5y ago
  I was fully prepared to say 'memory usage' as a kneejerk to Electron. But I decided to open System Monitor real quick and it turns out my 1Password 7 instance is using 201MB itself. Another ~30MB if the helpers are included. My machine has been on for about a week and I invoke 1Password a lot throughout the day + have about 500 entries. How much memory is yours consuming (assuming you're using 8)?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- Y-bar 5y ago
  From my own experience with Electron apps and 1Password beta a few months ago, putting resource usage aside (even if we should not): OS-native spell checking is missing. Lack of OS standard shortcuts. Everything is a single window. UX performance: lots of things has just a little bit longer.
  - roustem 5y ago
    We added spellcheck and text transformations options recently. Our team contributed a few patches to Electron to enable better macOS integration. For example: https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/32024 https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/32024 I believe the UX performance in 1Password 8 is better than any other app we built in the past: https://twitter.com/mitchchn/status/1491253916004147203?s=20 https://twitter.com/mitchchn/status/1491253916004147203?s=20 Would love to learn more about the standard shortcuts that are missing — good keyboard shortcuts is a huge priority to us! -- Roustem 1Password Founder
    - trvr 5y ago
      Not looking for a fight here, but it seems like there is a disconnect between 1Password/AgileBits praising version 8 while also trying to bury the fact that it is an Electron app. It seems like you are proud of what you are building (and that's awesome), but the Releases page for beta [1] doesn't contain the word Electron. 1: https://releases.1password.com/mac/beta/ https://releases.1password.com/mac/beta/
      - judge2020 5y ago
        Electron is effectively a UI and code framework, much like SwiftUI or just Swift with AppKit; I don't see why either would need to be a marketing point or referenced in the changelog. 1Password 7[0] doesn't say what it's made in either. 0: https://support.1password.com/explore/whats-new-mac/ https://support.1password.com/explore/whats-new-mac/
        brailsafe 5y ago
- cytzol 5y ago
  I tried the Electron version six months ago, and I wrote up its weaknesses here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28147305 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28147305 EDIT: I just tried the latest beta, and I'm happy to say that scrolling the list is now much faster! On the other hand, the blurry fonts, the lack of overscroll, the non-native dropdown menus, the inability to view your vault with the Preferences window open, and the lag when resizing the window are all still there. This does not fill me with hope that the final released version is going to be any better.
  - manwe150 5y ago
    I stopped my subscription to LastPass and bought a 1Password subscription because LastPass discontinued their native macOS app and went with an electron wrapper. But the new LastPass client was slow, glitchy, and broke OS integration (It lost a lot of features. I tried to report some of that, and their support team ignored me). The 1Password experience already seems to have more robust features than my experience with LastPass, so I am happy with the switch. I really hope they can preserve all that through the transition, or that they maintain the native client!
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

gspr 5y ago

Because the idea of shipping a goddamn browser for each and every little GUI app is revolting and disturbing. What other crazy decisions have these people made?!

Galanwe 5y ago
How is it different than using a GUI framework like Qt or GTK?
- ylyn 5y ago
  Qt and GTK apps don't usually spawn 5 processes, 300-400 MB of RAM, and take 100+ MB of disk space (because they always ship an entire copy of Electron) just to show a small window.
  - Galanwe 5y ago
    Then it's not electron the problem, it's the way the package was created. There is no reason it couldn't be distributed as a shared library.
- seanw444 5y ago
  Are we really comparing the bloat of Chromium to Qt & GTK?
- samarthr1 5y ago
  The runtime is much much smaller, fewer layers of.abstractions away?
- otabdeveloper4 5y ago
  If each app bundled its own build of Qt then it wouldn't be.
- gspr 5y ago
  They solve the task at hand (cross-platform GUIs), plus some auxiliary tasks like cross-platform FS access etc etc. That's much cleaner and more principled than "screw it, let's ship a browser".

nopenopenopeno 5y ago

Apparently 1password is developed Linux-first now.

smcleod 5y ago
Nah it's browser/javascript first using Electron :(
- nopenopenopeno 5y ago
  Fair point

SomeHacker44 5y ago

I tried 8 on Windows. I went back to 7 after a week. * Search is just plain broken. This was the number one reason i scrapped it. * Managing multiple vaults (i have over a dozen) is unusable. * The UI is terrible, it takes way more space to show less information than 7. * The browser integration (FF) seemed to work poorly. Basically, once 1Password stops supporting 7, they will have lost me and anyone I can influence as a customer.

vladvasiliu 5y ago
While I fully agree with your issues, and have experienced them too, (although comparing v8 on Linux to v7 on Mac – I don't use 1Password on Windows), those are just UI/integration issues. I don't think they're because of electron, but rather because the remake of the UI is poor. FWIW, my main gripe is having to unlock each vault separately, as opposed to a single unlock as used to be the case on Mac / iPhone.
- toyg 5y ago
  > those are just UI/integration issues. I don't think they're because of electron Electron makes integration harder.
  - vladvasiliu 5y ago
    Fair enough, but I expect browser integration and so forth to be done via the backend, which is rust, so native.
    - toyg 5y ago
      Rust is hardly a "desktop-native" language. I expect it will have to jump through all sorts of hoops to interface with the Obj-C underpinnings of MacOS desktop libraries. Regardless, even if the backend were pure Obj-C, the point is still that now you have a UI stack and a backend stack, instead of a single desktop-native stack, and you have to manage their communications. But I guess the money they save by not managing desktop-specific codebases eventually adds up...

Nextgrid 5y ago

With Electron you're one XSS away from your entire password database being stolen.

sroussey 5y ago
This is not true (though was an issue around Electron 1.0)

jbverschoor 5y ago

Besides that it's bloated. I really don't want to have my passwords and keys managed by something that's built on a software supply chain, which is so prone to malicious attempts (npm packages). There are way too many deep dependencies and mini packages out there.

otterley 5y ago

Memory is a precious resource. Every additional Electron app that’s running increases the likelihood that your system will have to swap, and then it will feel like a a turtle in a tarpit. Also, there’s some concern that continuous swapping prematurely ages SSDs, reducing the overall lifetime of laptops. The modern trend is to solder storage chips directly to the main board, making them difficult to replace.

TameAntelope 5y ago
Memory is not a precious resource, this narrative needs to die an unceremonious death. This isn't the 90s, we live in the future.
- otterley 5y ago
  Please elaborate to those of us who have actually experienced the “swap swamp” within the last year, in the 2020s, and who have enough systems knowledge to properly instrument this stuff. Are you gaslighting us?
  - TameAntelope 5y ago
    - otterley 5y ago
      This is a non-sequitur. And you haven't actually substantively rebutted my claim (or anyone else's here, for that matter).
      - TameAntelope 5y ago
- xfer 5y ago
  Then why is your cloud provider charging by GB-secs? This is the future after all.

bigpurple 5y ago

> Has it allowed some of these excellent third party apps to make the move to Linux? Absolutely. Has it allowed simple XSS vulnerabilities to turn into full blown RCEs? Absolutely.

Svoka 5y ago

It doesn't integrate with OS. Like events happen differently, stuff like this. Especially for macOS. But again, if one uses some crap from IntelliJ and Slack, this fits right in.