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A reasonable conclusion for advice to a government. Currency controls and manipulation are the most powerful controls nation state governments have. The impor

by dade_ 5y ago

A reasonable conclusion for advice to a government. Currency controls and manipulation are the most powerful controls nation state governments have. The important question remains, is what is good for the government, good for its people?

loup-vaillant 5y ago
> The important question remains, is what is good for the government, good for its people? If the answer is close enough to "no", then you know this is not a democracy.
- pinephoneguy 5y ago
Gareth321 5y ago
I am increasingly feeling that the majority in any democracy is willing to use authoritarian methods to achieve their goals. They are suspending due process in Canada because of a peaceful protest. This allows banks to freeze accounts and seize assets. This is what China does. If I were Canadian, I would be very concerned about the safety of my money in Canadian dollars in a Canadian bank. Canada is just the latest example of this kind of creeping authoritarianism. I wonder if they realise how much this will hurt the trust in the Canadian dollar and Canadian financial institutions, and the massive push for crypto adoption that will result.
- enkid 5y ago
  Democracy isn't about getting rid of government action. It's about enabling the people to control that action. These freedom convoys are protesting in an illegal way that disrupts people's ability to live their lives by blocking traffic, and have kept it up for weeks. At what point is the protest imposing unacceptable tyranny on the individuals who live on those streets? Certainly you would be against a government blockading people's homes.
  - pibechorro 5y ago
  - lowkey 5y ago
    The price, measured in freedom, is too high in my opinion. In passing the Emergency Act the Canadian Government: - has given the banks the right to freeze bank accounts of suspected protesters without evidence and granted the banks full immunity. Even if the banks are mistaken or outright abuse this right, they can never be held liable in a court of law - has suspended the rights of the accused to defend themselves in a court of law stripping them of all due process rights - can now force two truck companies to carry out the government’s orders or face severe punishment. The tow truck companies haven’t even been accused of any crime but they have been stripped of their right to autonomy Civil liberties, once lost, are difficult or impossible to recover. I don’t believe the government can resist using their new powers again, now that the genie is out of the bottle. The right for dissidents to peacefully protest is essential to the functioning of a healthy democracy. With these latest moves, the Canadian people are decidedly less free. I don’t think the loss of freedoms was worth the price. This time the government targeted a movement that many Canadians disagree with, let’s hope for your sake they never target a minority you personally support, lest you suddenly find yourself unbanked.
    - user_7832 5y ago
      To play The devil's advocate, what would you instead recommend to the government to do so that people could carry on with their lives and not have their likelihood shut down? > Civil liberties, once lost, are difficult or impossible to recover. I don’t believe the government can resist using their new powers again, now that the genie is out of the bottle. It might be new in Canada but governments have been doing this (using similar emergency laws) during the pandemic for a while. An anti-authoritarian person may feel that's extremely scary, while someone else may ask what else should a government do to prevent millions from dying, given that there are no pandemic-specific laws.
      - lowkey 5y ago
eric_cc 5y ago
Government printing fiat is fantastic for the government. Government controlled currency is terrible for individual freedom and for democracies. We just never had an alternative before. Stripping away this power from the government is another important step in human liberty.
- yao420 5y ago
  > We just never had an alternative before. Please do more research on the ‘Free Banking Era’, private currency was common.
  - eric_cc 5y ago
    This is not a good comparison to cryptocurrency for many reasons. Crypto is global, inclusionary, no worry about counterfeits, highly liquid, etcetc
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > Government controlled currency is terrible for individual freedom and for democracies. We just never had an alternative before. Gold, free banking…state-backed currency is the historical exception.
- mrzimmerman 5y ago
  Getting off the gold standard was also fantastic for governments and has resulted in one of the longest histories of economic stability and growth the world has ever seen[0]. We’ve had plenty of alternatives and most of them have been tried and studied. Having strong central monetary policy has resulted in large societal benefits. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard#Impact https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard#Impact
- codeflo 5y ago
  Ah, the libertarian paradise. History tells us exactly what that world would look like: 1% bitcoin trillionaires, 99% indentured serfs. You’re probably imagining yourself to be in that 1%, but my guess is you’re wrong about that.

by dade_ 5y ago

loup-vaillant 5y ago

> The important question remains, is what is good for the government, good for its people? If the answer is close enough to "no", then you know this is not a democracy.

pinephoneguy 5y ago

Gareth321 5y ago

I am increasingly feeling that the majority in any democracy is willing to use authoritarian methods to achieve their goals. They are suspending due process in Canada because of a peaceful protest. This allows banks to freeze accounts and seize assets. This is what China does. If I were Canadian, I would be very concerned about the safety of my money in Canadian dollars in a Canadian bank. Canada is just the latest example of this kind of creeping authoritarianism. I wonder if they realise how much this will hurt the trust in the Canadian dollar and Canadian financial institutions, and the massive push for crypto adoption that will result.

enkid 5y ago
Democracy isn't about getting rid of government action. It's about enabling the people to control that action. These freedom convoys are protesting in an illegal way that disrupts people's ability to live their lives by blocking traffic, and have kept it up for weeks. At what point is the protest imposing unacceptable tyranny on the individuals who live on those streets? Certainly you would be against a government blockading people's homes.
- pibechorro 5y ago
- lowkey 5y ago
  The price, measured in freedom, is too high in my opinion. In passing the Emergency Act the Canadian Government: - has given the banks the right to freeze bank accounts of suspected protesters without evidence and granted the banks full immunity. Even if the banks are mistaken or outright abuse this right, they can never be held liable in a court of law - has suspended the rights of the accused to defend themselves in a court of law stripping them of all due process rights - can now force two truck companies to carry out the government’s orders or face severe punishment. The tow truck companies haven’t even been accused of any crime but they have been stripped of their right to autonomy Civil liberties, once lost, are difficult or impossible to recover. I don’t believe the government can resist using their new powers again, now that the genie is out of the bottle. The right for dissidents to peacefully protest is essential to the functioning of a healthy democracy. With these latest moves, the Canadian people are decidedly less free. I don’t think the loss of freedoms was worth the price. This time the government targeted a movement that many Canadians disagree with, let’s hope for your sake they never target a minority you personally support, lest you suddenly find yourself unbanked.
  - user_7832 5y ago
    To play The devil's advocate, what would you instead recommend to the government to do so that people could carry on with their lives and not have their likelihood shut down? > Civil liberties, once lost, are difficult or impossible to recover. I don’t believe the government can resist using their new powers again, now that the genie is out of the bottle. It might be new in Canada but governments have been doing this (using similar emergency laws) during the pandemic for a while. An anti-authoritarian person may feel that's extremely scary, while someone else may ask what else should a government do to prevent millions from dying, given that there are no pandemic-specific laws.
    - lowkey 5y ago

eric_cc 5y ago

Government printing fiat is fantastic for the government. Government controlled currency is terrible for individual freedom and for democracies. We just never had an alternative before. Stripping away this power from the government is another important step in human liberty.

yao420 5y ago
> We just never had an alternative before. Please do more research on the ‘Free Banking Era’, private currency was common.
- eric_cc 5y ago
  This is not a good comparison to cryptocurrency for many reasons. Crypto is global, inclusionary, no worry about counterfeits, highly liquid, etcetc
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> Government controlled currency is terrible for individual freedom and for democracies. We just never had an alternative before. Gold, free banking…state-backed currency is the historical exception.
mrzimmerman 5y ago
Getting off the gold standard was also fantastic for governments and has resulted in one of the longest histories of economic stability and growth the world has ever seen[0]. We’ve had plenty of alternatives and most of them have been tried and studied. Having strong central monetary policy has resulted in large societal benefits. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard#Impact https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard#Impact
codeflo 5y ago
Ah, the libertarian paradise. History tells us exactly what that world would look like: 1% bitcoin trillionaires, 99% indentured serfs. You’re probably imagining yourself to be in that 1%, but my guess is you’re wrong about that.