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> 37. We have seen that crypto-technology is underpinned by a philosophy to evade Government controls. Cryptocurrencies have specifically been developed to bypa

by hd4 5y ago

> 37. We have seen that crypto-technology is underpinned by a philosophy to evade Government controls. Cryptocurrencies have specifically been developed to bypass the regulated financial system. These should be reason enough to treat them with caution. Well duh. Way to prove the point that we need to evade government control. Zero self-awareness. No examination into why people may not trust their government. Just do what we say. This from the same government that already demonetized* the currency used by the same people they want to be trusted by.

ajonit 5y ago
This from the same government that already devalued the currency used by the same people they want to be trusted by It was “demonetised”. To be fair and accurate context, a window of few months was provided to get the demonetise notes replaced with the equivalent amount of new notes.
- danuker 5y ago
  It is not the numbers on the notes that matter, it is the loss of purchasing power. In 1995, 1 USD = 32 INR. In 2022, 1 USD = 75 INR. Add to that the fact that USD is also losing value itself.
  - ajonit 5y ago
    Saying “devalued”, OP referred to the Nov 2016 demonetisation of INR 500 and 1000 currency notes that happened in India.
    - hd4 5y ago
      Correct, thanks for pointing that out, I edited the original comment.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    There are many things that happened in the global economy, banking, supply chains and multinational corporations. How much of this change is the fault of Indian government?
    - danuker 5y ago
      Judging by the money supply increase, inflation should have been even higher. Looks like velocity is tanking. https://tradingeconomics.com/india/money-supply-m3 https://tradingeconomics.com/india/money-supply-m3
BLKNSLVR 5y ago
I think they actually slightly miss the point. I didn't think the intention was to evade government controls, it was to provide a superior alternative. Some might say there's no difference, but I think it's an important distinction. Same with "bypassing" the regulated financial system. It's an alternative, and the reason it's unregulated is because it's new and governments haven't pulled their finger out and fucking well regulated it - they were lazily hoping it would blow over, and now that it is big enough to be a threat they're blaming it for existing. Exemplary politicking.
yvdriess 5y ago
It also evades the many rules and protections that were put in for a good reason, which makes the crypto space rife with scams and other abuses.
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  This is exactly the reason I expect more countries to follow suit. Without regulation to prevent scams, the shovel of the Bitcoin rush is lawyers. Unfortunately, the global nature of cryptocurrency makes cross-border scams easy and hard to litigate, which means the only regulation that will work is an outright ban.
iamben 5y ago
I mean - from a sensible discussion perspective, DO we need to evade all government control? I hate paying my taxes as much as I'm sure you do and yeah, it absolutely stings when I see them wasting £500k on a "ban E2E encryption campaign" (or all the other idiotic shit that goes on), but ultimately I kind of like having my bins emptied, my roads smooth, a fire department, a National Health Service, my bank account protected etc etc. People may not trust the government (and I say this from the UK, so I appreciate I'm still relatively lucky all things considered), but in terms of evading Government controls, I can't believe we won't see governments thinking about this if more people are choosing to find ways around obscuring their income and contributions to the things that keep society from completely falling apart. FWIW - not arguing against cryptocurrency, just positing idea that the whole my-finances-are-secret bank-yourself crypto utopia might not be all that.
- hd4 5y ago
  Remember Bitcoin appeared in the context of the 2008 financial crisis, when the US government effectively authorized the bailout of massively-overleveraged banks and put the burden on the taxpayer in the form of a diluted currency. When you look at things from that perspective, crypto becomes the only way out (or one of the only practical ways out) for people who don't like having to carry the burden of moronic bankers and of the ones who have the control over money creation. I would also like to live in a world where none of this is necessary, but we don't.
  - retube 5y ago
    As if the scammers and con-artists operating in crypto are ANY better than the banks. Banks are not perfect, but they are highly regulated, and come with a ton of consumer protections. There's none of that in crypto, and people are getting scammed or having their crypto stolen ALL the time.
    - hd4 5y ago
      No one claimed there weren't scammers in crypto, this is a phoney argument. The existence of scammers using fiat currency doesn't stop you from supporting fiat currency. This is about as legit an argument as the usual "pedos/terrorists/drug-dealers/mafia use the internet/encrypted messaging therefore internet/encrypted messaging BAD". Also, banks being regulated, don't make me laugh.
eric_cc 5y ago
Exactly. Plus, when provided a system that requires no trust (BTC, for example) why would anybody prefer a system that requires massive trust and faith (fiat currencies)?

by hd4 5y ago

ajonit 5y ago

This from the same government that already devalued the currency used by the same people they want to be trusted by It was “demonetised”. To be fair and accurate context, a window of few months was provided to get the demonetise notes replaced with the equivalent amount of new notes.

danuker 5y ago
It is not the numbers on the notes that matter, it is the loss of purchasing power. In 1995, 1 USD = 32 INR. In 2022, 1 USD = 75 INR. Add to that the fact that USD is also losing value itself.
- ajonit 5y ago
  Saying “devalued”, OP referred to the Nov 2016 demonetisation of INR 500 and 1000 currency notes that happened in India.
  - hd4 5y ago
    Correct, thanks for pointing that out, I edited the original comment.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  There are many things that happened in the global economy, banking, supply chains and multinational corporations. How much of this change is the fault of Indian government?
  - danuker 5y ago
    Judging by the money supply increase, inflation should have been even higher. Looks like velocity is tanking. https://tradingeconomics.com/india/money-supply-m3 https://tradingeconomics.com/india/money-supply-m3

BLKNSLVR 5y ago

I think they actually slightly miss the point. I didn't think the intention was to evade government controls, it was to provide a superior alternative. Some might say there's no difference, but I think it's an important distinction. Same with "bypassing" the regulated financial system. It's an alternative, and the reason it's unregulated is because it's new and governments haven't pulled their finger out and fucking well regulated it - they were lazily hoping it would blow over, and now that it is big enough to be a threat they're blaming it for existing. Exemplary politicking.

yvdriess 5y ago

It also evades the many rules and protections that were put in for a good reason, which makes the crypto space rife with scams and other abuses.

lern_too_spel 5y ago
This is exactly the reason I expect more countries to follow suit. Without regulation to prevent scams, the shovel of the Bitcoin rush is lawyers. Unfortunately, the global nature of cryptocurrency makes cross-border scams easy and hard to litigate, which means the only regulation that will work is an outright ban.

iamben 5y ago

I mean - from a sensible discussion perspective, DO we need to evade all government control? I hate paying my taxes as much as I'm sure you do and yeah, it absolutely stings when I see them wasting £500k on a "ban E2E encryption campaign" (or all the other idiotic shit that goes on), but ultimately I kind of like having my bins emptied, my roads smooth, a fire department, a National Health Service, my bank account protected etc etc. People may not trust the government (and I say this from the UK, so I appreciate I'm still relatively lucky all things considered), but in terms of evading Government controls, I can't believe we won't see governments thinking about this if more people are choosing to find ways around obscuring their income and contributions to the things that keep society from completely falling apart. FWIW - not arguing against cryptocurrency, just positing idea that the whole my-finances-are-secret bank-yourself crypto utopia might not be all that.

hd4 5y ago
Remember Bitcoin appeared in the context of the 2008 financial crisis, when the US government effectively authorized the bailout of massively-overleveraged banks and put the burden on the taxpayer in the form of a diluted currency. When you look at things from that perspective, crypto becomes the only way out (or one of the only practical ways out) for people who don't like having to carry the burden of moronic bankers and of the ones who have the control over money creation. I would also like to live in a world where none of this is necessary, but we don't.
- retube 5y ago
  As if the scammers and con-artists operating in crypto are ANY better than the banks. Banks are not perfect, but they are highly regulated, and come with a ton of consumer protections. There's none of that in crypto, and people are getting scammed or having their crypto stolen ALL the time.
  - hd4 5y ago
    No one claimed there weren't scammers in crypto, this is a phoney argument. The existence of scammers using fiat currency doesn't stop you from supporting fiat currency. This is about as legit an argument as the usual "pedos/terrorists/drug-dealers/mafia use the internet/encrypted messaging therefore internet/encrypted messaging BAD". Also, banks being regulated, don't make me laugh.

eric_cc 5y ago

Exactly. Plus, when provided a system that requires no trust (BTC, for example) why would anybody prefer a system that requires massive trust and faith (fiat currencies)?