3 ms·

Just one little problem the article didn't quite touch on: growth factor comes from dead baby cows: > The culture media is an essential component of in vitro c

Just one little problem the article didn't quite touch on: growth factor comes from dead baby cows: > The culture media is an essential component of in vitro cultivation. It is responsible for providing the macromolecules, nutrients and growth factors necessary for cell proliferation. Sourcing growth factors is one of the most challenging tasks of cellular agriculture. Traditionally, it involves the use of fetal bovine serum (FBS) which is a blood product extracted from fetal cows. Besides the argument that its production is unethical, it is also vitiates the independence of the use of animals. [...] > The current alternative is to generate each growth factor individually using recombinant protein production. In this process, the genes coding for the specific factor are integrated into bacteria which are then fermented. However, due to the added complexity of this process, it is particularly expensive.[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultured_meat#Growth_factors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultured_meat#Growth_factors So unless a viable alternative is found the ethical (and probably environmental also) issues are pretty much the same as eating normal meat.

donw 5y ago
> So unless a viable alternative is found the ethical (and probably environmental also) issues are pretty much the same as eating normal meat. Like pretty much everything else pushed by the environmentalist community, it's more about signaling how much you care. Results don't mean shit. If you want to see true environmentalism, the homesteading community does a great job. Massive focus on sustainability, reuse, local cradle-to-grave manufacturing, zero pollution, all the rest. They do the work. Contrast that to the "biofuels are evil" crowd, which has zero problem with intensive lithium strip-mining... as long as it happens somewhere else. Doesn't matter that their Teslas are effectively coal-fired, because they have fought nuclear power for decades. Lifestyles that are wholly unsustainable without de facto slave labor. And let's not even get started with the "recycling" that was, in reality, just shipping trash to foreign landfills. The credibility level of the environmental movement is well into negative numbers from where I sit.
- eternityforest 5y ago
  Both lithium and FBS replacements are actively in development. Perhaps it would be better to wait on even starting the cultured meat stuff till after the tech is available though. I suspect the environmentalist community aren't the ones that actually want it. I'm perfectly happy with plant based. I would probably eat the cultured stuff but I'd never go out of my way to buy it. It's a compromise to appeal to the general public who seem abhor the thought of vegan food, probably because of the combined efforts of vegans(The worst PR people ever!) and the manosphere/fitness community/traditional living/edgy darwin obsessed atheists who probably never read a darwin book spouting about how it's unnatural to not eat meat.
  - girvo 5y ago
    > I suspect the environmentalist community aren't the ones that actually want it. Anecdotally, your suspicion is entirely confirmed by my experiences. None of the vegans or environmentalists I know care about or are asking for it. Plant based products are already fantastic for them along every axis they would care about.
  - donw 5y ago
    Here's a video of Matthew Liao, the Director of Center for Bioethics at NYU, speaking to an audience about deliberately infecting the populace with a genetically engineered disease to make them allergic to meat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxGlE9knOf0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxGlE9knOf0 His position carries a great deal of power and influence, and from the reception of his talk, it is clear that his ideas are popular on the Left. This isn't a "PR problem".
- sammalloy 5y ago
  You’ve just repeated every myth that’s been intentionally spread by the fossil fuel industry, the food and beverage industry, and all the other industries who fought tooth and nail against renewable energy, actual recycling, and safe and clean nuclear power. Blaming the "environmental movement" for any of these things ignores the last fifty years of corporate action against progressive legislation and represents a true revisionist and reactionary perspective on history, facts, evidence, and data. Congratulations, the Koch Network couldn’t have said it better.
  - vimy 5y ago
    The “environmental movement” is still fighting nuclear. Where are the lawsuits to stop nuclear plants by big oil? There aren’t any. Greenpeace on the other hand has made it their mission. The greens are responsible for the higher emissions in Germany by shutting down perfectly fine nuclear plants and replacing them with coal and gas. They are gonna do the same thing in Belgium. They shut down the nuclear plant in New York then oppose an alternative.[1] It’s dogma. Might be an interesting read for you: https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2022/02/14/viewpoint-environmentalist-delusions-why-progressive-opposition-to-nuclear-energy-and-crop-biotechnology-are-the-biggest-obstacles-to-addressing-climate-change/ https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2022/02/14/viewpoint-envi... [1]https://twitter.com/JesseJenkins/status/1491802719878672395 https://twitter.com/JesseJenkins/status/1491802719878672395
- Retric 5y ago
  Homesteading requires massive amounts of land per person which is worse for the environment than living in a city and using industrial farming etc. Anthropocene extinction largely comes down to Wildlife needs space and homesteads don’t work for most plants and animals. In terms of electricity generation coal is dying everywhere. Worse what people forget about ICE cars is extracting and manufacturing fuel results in massive amounts of pollution. What comes the tailpipe is still an issue, but oil refinery’s, oil tankers, oil extraction, oil exploration, oil tankers, 18 wheeler fuel delivery etc are all causing harm before you fill up the tank. PS: I still own an ICE car, but I don’t drive that much.
notreallyserio 5y ago
How many baby cows need to be killed to produce a ton or metric ton of cultivated beef?
washadjeffmad 5y ago
Calves are already a natural byproduct of the production of all dairy. On a dairy farm, they're effectively a waste product. While working in ag research, I was surprised to learn of this when a dairy farmer who knew I'd been in the restaurant business pulled me aside and asked what a man might want with their dead calves, which she'd been letting him haul away for $50. I asked how old and if they'd been freshly slaughtered, she said a few months and yes, and I told her how much she should be charging him for naturally raised veal. I worked on media development for similar projects, and once you get here, you realize the biggest barrier is that there's practically no one doing this, and fluff pieces like this are supposed to encourage hopeful investors there is a market to fund. There's not much someone with no experience couldn't do at home today with a few months of lab training and scientific literacy, all for less than the price of a Disney vacation. It's not like anyone asks for your Science License to buy cell cultures or read the literature, especially with sci-hub today.

donw 5y ago

> So unless a viable alternative is found the ethical (and probably environmental also) issues are pretty much the same as eating normal meat. Like pretty much everything else pushed by the environmentalist community, it's more about signaling how much you care. Results don't mean shit. If you want to see true environmentalism, the homesteading community does a great job. Massive focus on sustainability, reuse, local cradle-to-grave manufacturing, zero pollution, all the rest. They do the work. Contrast that to the "biofuels are evil" crowd, which has zero problem with intensive lithium strip-mining... as long as it happens somewhere else. Doesn't matter that their Teslas are effectively coal-fired, because they have fought nuclear power for decades. Lifestyles that are wholly unsustainable without de facto slave labor. And let's not even get started with the "recycling" that was, in reality, just shipping trash to foreign landfills. The credibility level of the environmental movement is well into negative numbers from where I sit.

eternityforest 5y ago
Both lithium and FBS replacements are actively in development. Perhaps it would be better to wait on even starting the cultured meat stuff till after the tech is available though. I suspect the environmentalist community aren't the ones that actually want it. I'm perfectly happy with plant based. I would probably eat the cultured stuff but I'd never go out of my way to buy it. It's a compromise to appeal to the general public who seem abhor the thought of vegan food, probably because of the combined efforts of vegans(The worst PR people ever!) and the manosphere/fitness community/traditional living/edgy darwin obsessed atheists who probably never read a darwin book spouting about how it's unnatural to not eat meat.
- girvo 5y ago
  > I suspect the environmentalist community aren't the ones that actually want it. Anecdotally, your suspicion is entirely confirmed by my experiences. None of the vegans or environmentalists I know care about or are asking for it. Plant based products are already fantastic for them along every axis they would care about.
- donw 5y ago
  Here's a video of Matthew Liao, the Director of Center for Bioethics at NYU, speaking to an audience about deliberately infecting the populace with a genetically engineered disease to make them allergic to meat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxGlE9knOf0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxGlE9knOf0 His position carries a great deal of power and influence, and from the reception of his talk, it is clear that his ideas are popular on the Left. This isn't a "PR problem".
sammalloy 5y ago
You’ve just repeated every myth that’s been intentionally spread by the fossil fuel industry, the food and beverage industry, and all the other industries who fought tooth and nail against renewable energy, actual recycling, and safe and clean nuclear power. Blaming the "environmental movement" for any of these things ignores the last fifty years of corporate action against progressive legislation and represents a true revisionist and reactionary perspective on history, facts, evidence, and data. Congratulations, the Koch Network couldn’t have said it better.
- vimy 5y ago
  The “environmental movement” is still fighting nuclear. Where are the lawsuits to stop nuclear plants by big oil? There aren’t any. Greenpeace on the other hand has made it their mission. The greens are responsible for the higher emissions in Germany by shutting down perfectly fine nuclear plants and replacing them with coal and gas. They are gonna do the same thing in Belgium. They shut down the nuclear plant in New York then oppose an alternative.[1] It’s dogma. Might be an interesting read for you: https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2022/02/14/viewpoint-environmentalist-delusions-why-progressive-opposition-to-nuclear-energy-and-crop-biotechnology-are-the-biggest-obstacles-to-addressing-climate-change/ https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2022/02/14/viewpoint-envi... [1]https://twitter.com/JesseJenkins/status/1491802719878672395 https://twitter.com/JesseJenkins/status/1491802719878672395
Retric 5y ago
Homesteading requires massive amounts of land per person which is worse for the environment than living in a city and using industrial farming etc. Anthropocene extinction largely comes down to Wildlife needs space and homesteads don’t work for most plants and animals. In terms of electricity generation coal is dying everywhere. Worse what people forget about ICE cars is extracting and manufacturing fuel results in massive amounts of pollution. What comes the tailpipe is still an issue, but oil refinery’s, oil tankers, oil extraction, oil exploration, oil tankers, 18 wheeler fuel delivery etc are all causing harm before you fill up the tank. PS: I still own an ICE car, but I don’t drive that much.

notreallyserio 5y ago

How many baby cows need to be killed to produce a ton or metric ton of cultivated beef?

washadjeffmad 5y ago

Calves are already a natural byproduct of the production of all dairy. On a dairy farm, they're effectively a waste product. While working in ag research, I was surprised to learn of this when a dairy farmer who knew I'd been in the restaurant business pulled me aside and asked what a man might want with their dead calves, which she'd been letting him haul away for $50. I asked how old and if they'd been freshly slaughtered, she said a few months and yes, and I told her how much she should be charging him for naturally raised veal. I worked on media development for similar projects, and once you get here, you realize the biggest barrier is that there's practically no one doing this, and fluff pieces like this are supposed to encourage hopeful investors there is a market to fund. There's not much someone with no experience couldn't do at home today with a few months of lab training and scientific literacy, all for less than the price of a Disney vacation. It's not like anyone asks for your Science License to buy cell cultures or read the literature, especially with sci-hub today.