8 ms·

The first HIV mRNA vaccine just started it's phase I trial on humans, only two weeks ago: https://investors.modernatx.com/news/news-details/2022/IAVI-and-Moder

The first HIV mRNA vaccine just started it's phase I trial on humans, only two weeks ago: https://investors.modernatx.com/news/news-details/2022/IAVI-and-Moderna-Launch-Trial-of-HIV-Vaccine-Antigens-Delivered-Through-mRNA-Technology/default.aspx https://investors.modernatx.com/news/news-details/2022/IAVI-... I have a feeling mRNA tech will be regarded as one of those medical discoveries on par with penicillin, but only time will tell.

andy_ppp 5y ago
We haven't even started to see the potential for using the body to manufacture the drugs needed to fix all kinds of ailments. It's going to be a very interesting time that COVID has brought forward dramatically I'm guessing.
- nomel 5y ago
  > to manufacture the drugs needed This assumes that the drugs are proteins, correct?
  - MathMonkeyMan 5y ago
    Yes, which would put it in a pretty much different category of thing than is usually meant by "drug." On the other hand, how many times have you heard "works by binding to the same active site as <something the body produces>"? It'd be cool if we could get the body to produce more of that something.
    - bduerst 5y ago
      Yep, there are already classes of therapeutic proteins, the most notorious of which is insulin. With mRNA tech, you unlock even more intracellular proteins that were previous impossible to get through the cell wall.
    - thaumasiotes 5y ago
      > On the other hand, how many times have you heard "works by binding to the same active site as <something the body produces>"? It'd be cool if we could get the body to produce more of that something. Note that binding to the same active site as something the body produces is also a strategy for imagining that you produce less of that thing. There's "binding to the same active site [and triggering it]" and there's "binding to the same active site [and plugging it]". As to how often this strategy is used... what other strategies are there? You produce the effect you want by triggering it to occur. You inhibit the effect you don't want by blocking it from occurring. You could think of something like a lactase supplement to help you digest milk, and that wouldn't be binding to active sites of your own molecules, but it still works by binding to particular sites on the lactose. Chemicals have their effects through chemical reactions.
      - dotancohen 5y ago
        > Note that binding to the same active site as something > the body produces is also a strategy for imagining that you > produce less of that thing. There's "binding to the > same active site [and triggering it]" and there's "binding to > the same active site [and plugging it]". This is how caffeine works. Broadly, it binds to the adenocine receptors and prevents the adenocine from binding. Adenocine makes us tired (less alert) and caffeine inhibits that process.
  - ogwh 5y ago
    Enzymes are proteins that accelerate chemical reactions. Genetic engineering is already used to manufacture some chemicals by modifying the DNA of microbes to produce the necessary enzymes. The microbes then consume the precursor chemicals and synthesise the product. Indeed every natural bioactive chemical is manufactured by proteins in the form of enzymes. So the mRNA for the necessary enzymes could be given to a person, and their own cells would become short term chemical factories for their medication. The problem is getting the cells to synthesise the right amount of a drug, and mRNA is quickly destroyed so would require repeated dosing just like regular drug administration. For something permanent CRISPR-Cas9 would be required to edit the actual DNA of the cells. A DIY biohacker cured his lactose intolerance by engineering a virus to modify his cells to produce the lactase enzyme in his digestive tract. I think the results lasted several months in that case but could be wrong, may have been permanent. Video of the project on YouTube.
    - noveltyaccount 5y ago
      The video: https://youtu.be/J3FcbFqSoQY https://youtu.be/J3FcbFqSoQY - and it did wear off after several months, he discusses it in follow up videos. Speaking for myself, taking a lactose CRISPR treatment twice a year sounds pretty nice compared to avoiding dairy and/or taking lactase with many meals.
      - cptaj 5y ago
        This is nuts. Has there been any peer review of this? Any other sources? I feel like this should be huge
      - klipt 5y ago
        On the other hand if CRISPR edits the wrong thing you might get cancer. At least lactase pills don't give you cancer.
      - wahern 5y ago
        Seems like they simply copied this 1998 experiment: "Peroral gene therapy of lactose intolerance using an adeno-associated virus vector", https://www.nature.com/articles/nm1098_1131 https://www.nature.com/articles/nm1098_1131 In addition to most of the substantive details, the screenshot of "Fig. 2" shown at the 4:45 mark matches Figure 2 in the HTML version of the paper at that link. (EDIT: Screenshot seems to be enlarged clip from the PDF at https://www.nature.com/articles/nm1098_1131.pdf https://www.nature.com/articles/nm1098_1131.pdf)
- taylorportman 5y ago
  Speaking as an enthusiast, it does seem like there will be a shift from certain drugs being manufactured by a pharmaceuticals producer to self-manufacture from mRNA sequence delivery. I wonder what it means for pharmaceutical companies that have IP for, say insulin, but someone else claims control of the mRNA code that triggers it's production?
  - benglish11 5y ago
    That may be a bad example but the “patents on insulin” are on the specific processes to create it not on insulin itself. This would be another unique process.
- shusaku 5y ago
  Is there any good sci-fi in this direction? It seems like cybernetics usually involves machines; genetic engineering is another popular one. But thinking about cells as Turing machines you can feed code to seems like a nice big idea.
  - ILMostro7 5y ago
    A few episodes of The Outer Limits come to mind.
  - ant6n 5y ago
    Resident Evil.
  - brainbag 5y ago
    Peripherally, the short story 0wnz0red by Cory Doctorow.
heavyset_go 5y ago
For reference, there are dozens of HIV vaccines in various stages of trials right now[1]. [1] https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=vaccine&cond=Hiv&Search=Apply&recrs=b&recrs=a&recrs=f&recrs=d&age_v=&gndr=&type=&rslt= https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=vaccine&cond=Hiv...
oceanplexian 5y ago
As far as vaccines go mRNA is one of the least proven technologies out there. From what we've found with COVID-19, it won't stop viral transmission, and loses efficacy after a few short months. And HIV mutates about 500 times faster than COVID-19. The fact that the drug companies, who are financially vested in this technology claim it's a miracle cure for anything under the sun is not particularly surprising.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  Some of the current HIV vaccines being tested right now work on the assumption that if they can elicit a certain antibody response from the immune system, it will produce specific antibodies that have been shown to work against HIV in humans. If you can design an mRNA vaccine that encodes those proteins directly, you won't have to design vaccines with the mere hope that the immune system will develop the right antibodies in response to them. From what I understand about HIV vaccines, finding the right inoculant that elicits the correct HIV eliminating antibody response is the hard part that mRNA vaccines might be able to tackle directly.

andy_ppp 5y ago

We haven't even started to see the potential for using the body to manufacture the drugs needed to fix all kinds of ailments. It's going to be a very interesting time that COVID has brought forward dramatically I'm guessing.

nomel 5y ago
> to manufacture the drugs needed This assumes that the drugs are proteins, correct?
- MathMonkeyMan 5y ago
  Yes, which would put it in a pretty much different category of thing than is usually meant by "drug." On the other hand, how many times have you heard "works by binding to the same active site as <something the body produces>"? It'd be cool if we could get the body to produce more of that something.
  - bduerst 5y ago
    Yep, there are already classes of therapeutic proteins, the most notorious of which is insulin. With mRNA tech, you unlock even more intracellular proteins that were previous impossible to get through the cell wall.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > On the other hand, how many times have you heard "works by binding to the same active site as <something the body produces>"? It'd be cool if we could get the body to produce more of that something. Note that binding to the same active site as something the body produces is also a strategy for imagining that you produce less of that thing. There's "binding to the same active site [and triggering it]" and there's "binding to the same active site [and plugging it]". As to how often this strategy is used... what other strategies are there? You produce the effect you want by triggering it to occur. You inhibit the effect you don't want by blocking it from occurring. You could think of something like a lactase supplement to help you digest milk, and that wouldn't be binding to active sites of your own molecules, but it still works by binding to particular sites on the lactose. Chemicals have their effects through chemical reactions.
    - dotancohen 5y ago
      > Note that binding to the same active site as something > the body produces is also a strategy for imagining that you > produce less of that thing. There's "binding to the > same active site [and triggering it]" and there's "binding to > the same active site [and plugging it]". This is how caffeine works. Broadly, it binds to the adenocine receptors and prevents the adenocine from binding. Adenocine makes us tired (less alert) and caffeine inhibits that process.
- ogwh 5y ago
  Enzymes are proteins that accelerate chemical reactions. Genetic engineering is already used to manufacture some chemicals by modifying the DNA of microbes to produce the necessary enzymes. The microbes then consume the precursor chemicals and synthesise the product. Indeed every natural bioactive chemical is manufactured by proteins in the form of enzymes. So the mRNA for the necessary enzymes could be given to a person, and their own cells would become short term chemical factories for their medication. The problem is getting the cells to synthesise the right amount of a drug, and mRNA is quickly destroyed so would require repeated dosing just like regular drug administration. For something permanent CRISPR-Cas9 would be required to edit the actual DNA of the cells. A DIY biohacker cured his lactose intolerance by engineering a virus to modify his cells to produce the lactase enzyme in his digestive tract. I think the results lasted several months in that case but could be wrong, may have been permanent. Video of the project on YouTube.
  - noveltyaccount 5y ago
    The video: https://youtu.be/J3FcbFqSoQY https://youtu.be/J3FcbFqSoQY - and it did wear off after several months, he discusses it in follow up videos. Speaking for myself, taking a lactose CRISPR treatment twice a year sounds pretty nice compared to avoiding dairy and/or taking lactase with many meals.
    - cptaj 5y ago
      This is nuts. Has there been any peer review of this? Any other sources? I feel like this should be huge
    - klipt 5y ago
      On the other hand if CRISPR edits the wrong thing you might get cancer. At least lactase pills don't give you cancer.
    - wahern 5y ago
      Seems like they simply copied this 1998 experiment: "Peroral gene therapy of lactose intolerance using an adeno-associated virus vector", https://www.nature.com/articles/nm1098_1131 https://www.nature.com/articles/nm1098_1131 In addition to most of the substantive details, the screenshot of "Fig. 2" shown at the 4:45 mark matches Figure 2 in the HTML version of the paper at that link. (EDIT: Screenshot seems to be enlarged clip from the PDF at https://www.nature.com/articles/nm1098_1131.pdf https://www.nature.com/articles/nm1098_1131.pdf)
taylorportman 5y ago
Speaking as an enthusiast, it does seem like there will be a shift from certain drugs being manufactured by a pharmaceuticals producer to self-manufacture from mRNA sequence delivery. I wonder what it means for pharmaceutical companies that have IP for, say insulin, but someone else claims control of the mRNA code that triggers it's production?
- benglish11 5y ago
  That may be a bad example but the “patents on insulin” are on the specific processes to create it not on insulin itself. This would be another unique process.
shusaku 5y ago
Is there any good sci-fi in this direction? It seems like cybernetics usually involves machines; genetic engineering is another popular one. But thinking about cells as Turing machines you can feed code to seems like a nice big idea.
- ILMostro7 5y ago
  A few episodes of The Outer Limits come to mind.
- ant6n 5y ago
  Resident Evil.
- brainbag 5y ago
  Peripherally, the short story 0wnz0red by Cory Doctorow.

heavyset_go 5y ago

For reference, there are dozens of HIV vaccines in various stages of trials right now[1]. [1] https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=vaccine&cond=Hiv&Search=Apply&recrs=b&recrs=a&recrs=f&recrs=d&age_v=&gndr=&type=&rslt= https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=vaccine&cond=Hiv...

oceanplexian 5y ago

As far as vaccines go mRNA is one of the least proven technologies out there. From what we've found with COVID-19, it won't stop viral transmission, and loses efficacy after a few short months. And HIV mutates about 500 times faster than COVID-19. The fact that the drug companies, who are financially vested in this technology claim it's a miracle cure for anything under the sun is not particularly surprising.

heavyset_go 5y ago
Some of the current HIV vaccines being tested right now work on the assumption that if they can elicit a certain antibody response from the immune system, it will produce specific antibodies that have been shown to work against HIV in humans. If you can design an mRNA vaccine that encodes those proteins directly, you won't have to design vaccines with the mere hope that the immune system will develop the right antibodies in response to them. From what I understand about HIV vaccines, finding the right inoculant that elicits the correct HIV eliminating antibody response is the hard part that mRNA vaccines might be able to tackle directly.