23 ms·

Totally tangential, but this was a shocking sentence from that post... > plancentas are so valuable that physicians - especially in Europe - sometimes prefer t

Totally tangential, but this was a shocking sentence from that post... > plancentas are so valuable that physicians - especially in Europe - sometimes prefer to take them for themselves to sell to cosmetics research for ~$50k I wonder if there's a hybrid approach where you could share the placenta/umbilical cord w/other companies and get free storage.

Alex3917 5y ago
You can donate cord blood for free to a public bank. Obviously you're not guaranteed that it won't be used by someone else before a sibling potentially needs it, but the chances of it being useful to your own family are almost zero anyway -- not exactly zero, but if you were making a list of the ways to best increase your life expectancy given $5k to spend, I doubt it would even make the top 1,000 options in terms of expected ROI.
- acchow 5y ago
  What would be some things you might expect to see in the top 50?
  - Alex3917 5y ago
    Things generally related to diet, exercise, health, and education.
    - acchow 5y ago
      I don't think of "exercise" as a "5k" investment. Sure you could buy 5k worth of equipment, but how much more does that improve your health over calisthenics and a set of dumbbells? Yes, education I'd say is in the top 10 or 50. But how can you possibly fill out the top 1000 without including umbilical cord stem cells?
  - op00to 5y ago
    - Spend good money on therapy - At home exercise equipment - Dental care Just a few things off the top of my head.
- pkukp9 5y ago
  hello - founder of Anja Health here :) I would actually argue that the chances of using it are actually much higher & it would make the top 1000 options in terms of expected ROI. Using type 1 diabetes as an example: By age 18, approximately 1/300 people in the US develop type 1 diabetes https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/240160#1 https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/240160#1 -> here's an article demonstrating how cord blood has successfully reversed type 1 diabetes and that's just for diabetes. Consider the chances and corresponding research around cerebral palsy, hair loss, heart failure, liver disease, cancers, and more that stem cells - and specifically cord blood stem cells - have been successfully used for.
  - metb 5y ago
    There was some research that indicated stem cells can be made from skin cells. Is there a chance this field will eventually catch up by the time stem cell therapies become more widely accesssible?
    - pkukp9 5y ago
      Those stem cells are more unstable than cord blood stem cells. Right now they can be carcinogenic!
      - metb 5y ago
        Thanks for replying. Would like to learn more about the carcinogenic aspect of these stem cells. Can you share any pointers.
skrbjc 5y ago
That should be illegal
- jacquesm 5y ago
  It is.
jacquesm 5y ago
That claim is bullshit, see my comment in that thread.
- tptacek 5y ago
  I don't know if you're just having a bad day or something but the comment you're referring to is pretty aggro.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Yes, I take issue with people accusing doctors of crimes on the basis of hearsay, especially to promote their own products.
    - sooheon 5y ago
      I found at least one article: NHS hospital sells placentas for cosmetic use https://web.archive.org/web/20210217162113/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1973229/NHS-hospital-sells-placentas-for-cosmetic-use.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210217162113/https://www.teleg... Not 50k a pop, but shows that it does happen.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        > I found at least one article: No, you found one article. > Not 50k a pop, but shows that it does happen. It shows it did happen, 13 years ago. Compare with the claims made by Anjahealth's CEO. (1) an 'NHS hospital in the UK' is not 'doctors in the EU', (2) it is universally condemned, (3) the beneficiary is apparently a US company (4) Consent was obtained but for different reasons (medical research), which put the hospital in hot water, as it should. (5) the amount is nowhere near the one claimed. (6) it is a donation, clearly still a quid-pro-quo. (7) this is outrageous enough that it made the newspaper. (8) 2008. To use this in a commercial setting, to pretend it's an ongoing and common thing and that doctors in the EU profit from this is absolutely disgusting. Besides that I sincerely hope that that hospital had the book thrown at it, and suspect the company is at fault and not the hospital. Accusations like that against doctors should not be made lightly, especially not for your own personal financial gain. Finally: placentas are used for good research, they are a rich source of stem cells and hard to come by proteins, some hospitals do collect them for this purpose (as the hospital in the article pretended to do), and by making the argument that they are mostly used for cosmetics manufacture it harms the main reason hospitals will pass them on: to help with various medical research programs, which the company is essentially in competition with. It's a straight up case of FUD with unsupported accusations of insane profits on unethical behavior against a group of people that have taken a pretty expensive oath as well as operating under strict regulations. edit: some more research later: It appears the hospital was unaware of what the company did: " She added: "We have spoken to Sigma-Aldrich already and asked them to revise the consent form so it is more explicit. We partook in the scheme on the understanding that the placentas would be used for medical research." She added mothers were given information about the process during ante-natal care and placentas were only ever taken with their consent. She added: "We do receive a donation for this service, but we are not paid for it as such. The distinction is that even if we didn't receive a donation, we would still offer mothers the opportunity to donate their placentas for research, rather than have them incinerated." Sigma-Aldrich, which has a facility in Fancy Road, Poole, denied its human placental by-products are used in the manufacture of any cosmetic products, but a spokesman admitted they may be used in their development and testing. " https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/2279703.placenta-anger-at-hospital/ https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/2279703.placenta-ange... Based on the information available the hospital made yet another questionable call here, revising the consent form isn't the solution, the solution is to stop working with this company because it clearly can't be trusted.
pkukp9 5y ago
A doula told me that she saw this happen in the US once too. It's not legal, but I think there are legal loopholes around it. Another OBGYN told me it's more common in Europe

Alex3917 5y ago

You can donate cord blood for free to a public bank. Obviously you're not guaranteed that it won't be used by someone else before a sibling potentially needs it, but the chances of it being useful to your own family are almost zero anyway -- not exactly zero, but if you were making a list of the ways to best increase your life expectancy given $5k to spend, I doubt it would even make the top 1,000 options in terms of expected ROI.

acchow 5y ago
What would be some things you might expect to see in the top 50?
- Alex3917 5y ago
  Things generally related to diet, exercise, health, and education.
  - acchow 5y ago
    I don't think of "exercise" as a "5k" investment. Sure you could buy 5k worth of equipment, but how much more does that improve your health over calisthenics and a set of dumbbells? Yes, education I'd say is in the top 10 or 50. But how can you possibly fill out the top 1000 without including umbilical cord stem cells?
- op00to 5y ago
  - Spend good money on therapy - At home exercise equipment - Dental care Just a few things off the top of my head.
pkukp9 5y ago
hello - founder of Anja Health here :) I would actually argue that the chances of using it are actually much higher & it would make the top 1000 options in terms of expected ROI. Using type 1 diabetes as an example: By age 18, approximately 1/300 people in the US develop type 1 diabetes https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/240160#1 https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/240160#1 -> here's an article demonstrating how cord blood has successfully reversed type 1 diabetes and that's just for diabetes. Consider the chances and corresponding research around cerebral palsy, hair loss, heart failure, liver disease, cancers, and more that stem cells - and specifically cord blood stem cells - have been successfully used for.
- metb 5y ago
  There was some research that indicated stem cells can be made from skin cells. Is there a chance this field will eventually catch up by the time stem cell therapies become more widely accesssible?
  - pkukp9 5y ago
    Those stem cells are more unstable than cord blood stem cells. Right now they can be carcinogenic!
    - metb 5y ago
      Thanks for replying. Would like to learn more about the carcinogenic aspect of these stem cells. Can you share any pointers.

skrbjc 5y ago

That should be illegal

jacquesm 5y ago
It is.

jacquesm 5y ago

That claim is bullshit, see my comment in that thread.

tptacek 5y ago
I don't know if you're just having a bad day or something but the comment you're referring to is pretty aggro.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Yes, I take issue with people accusing doctors of crimes on the basis of hearsay, especially to promote their own products.
  - sooheon 5y ago
    I found at least one article: NHS hospital sells placentas for cosmetic use https://web.archive.org/web/20210217162113/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1973229/NHS-hospital-sells-placentas-for-cosmetic-use.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210217162113/https://www.teleg... Not 50k a pop, but shows that it does happen.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      > I found at least one article: No, you found one article. > Not 50k a pop, but shows that it does happen. It shows it did happen, 13 years ago. Compare with the claims made by Anjahealth's CEO. (1) an 'NHS hospital in the UK' is not 'doctors in the EU', (2) it is universally condemned, (3) the beneficiary is apparently a US company (4) Consent was obtained but for different reasons (medical research), which put the hospital in hot water, as it should. (5) the amount is nowhere near the one claimed. (6) it is a donation, clearly still a quid-pro-quo. (7) this is outrageous enough that it made the newspaper. (8) 2008. To use this in a commercial setting, to pretend it's an ongoing and common thing and that doctors in the EU profit from this is absolutely disgusting. Besides that I sincerely hope that that hospital had the book thrown at it, and suspect the company is at fault and not the hospital. Accusations like that against doctors should not be made lightly, especially not for your own personal financial gain. Finally: placentas are used for good research, they are a rich source of stem cells and hard to come by proteins, some hospitals do collect them for this purpose (as the hospital in the article pretended to do), and by making the argument that they are mostly used for cosmetics manufacture it harms the main reason hospitals will pass them on: to help with various medical research programs, which the company is essentially in competition with. It's a straight up case of FUD with unsupported accusations of insane profits on unethical behavior against a group of people that have taken a pretty expensive oath as well as operating under strict regulations. edit: some more research later: It appears the hospital was unaware of what the company did: " She added: "We have spoken to Sigma-Aldrich already and asked them to revise the consent form so it is more explicit. We partook in the scheme on the understanding that the placentas would be used for medical research." She added mothers were given information about the process during ante-natal care and placentas were only ever taken with their consent. She added: "We do receive a donation for this service, but we are not paid for it as such. The distinction is that even if we didn't receive a donation, we would still offer mothers the opportunity to donate their placentas for research, rather than have them incinerated." Sigma-Aldrich, which has a facility in Fancy Road, Poole, denied its human placental by-products are used in the manufacture of any cosmetic products, but a spokesman admitted they may be used in their development and testing. " https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/2279703.placenta-anger-at-hospital/ https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/2279703.placenta-ange... Based on the information available the hospital made yet another questionable call here, revising the consent form isn't the solution, the solution is to stop working with this company because it clearly can't be trusted.

pkukp9 5y ago

A doula told me that she saw this happen in the US once too. It's not legal, but I think there are legal loopholes around it. Another OBGYN told me it's more common in Europe