5 ms·

A Quara link full of anecdotal evidence isn't really support for your thesis.

by Saint_Genet 5y ago

DoreenMichele 5y ago
It's not a thesis. It's a comment on a discussion board.
- valarauko 5y ago
  It's clear that the parent comment is using "thesis" = "premise/claim" in this context, and it's a reasonable use of the word.
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    It's an unreasonable standard though, one to which I seem to frequently be held for bullshit reasons that appear to me to boil down to "We refuse to believe that you know anything about health topics and also require you in specific to meet a higher standard than other posters just making conversation." It's a means to gatekeep me out of medical discussion because people don't like the idea that I'm getting healthier when doctors say that cannot be done and rather than engage in meaningful discussion, I fairly often receive a dismissive pile on of replies in a way that I do not believe is the norm for HN. I don't have to defend it or prove a claim. I didn't make a claim. I stated as clearly as I know how that it made me wonder x and so I did a search. This should not be drama of any sort. Other people routinely make conversation on medical topics and aren't given a hard time for it. Other people in this discussion are making conversation about donating cord blood to research. No one is required to be a medical professional to participate in medical discussion here. No one is required to defend their interest in such subjects. Except apparently me. Probably because of my personal situation and people having some issue with that.
    - valarauko 5y ago
      I think that's an incredibly uncharitable take from this thread. Almost none of the people here are medical professionals, nor do I think most people here are familiar enough with usernames to target you in particular. You opinion is just as valuable as any others here. If anything, at least in this case I can see that providing a Quora page as "supporting link" works against you - because of the low quality of most Quora content. You mused about a possibility, and the comment engaged with your point at face value with a very reasonable response. They did not ask you to meet a "higher standard" or provide evidence for your idea. You escalated the discussion from there by suggesting that the Quora page is "supporting" - which it really isn't. Making conversation is fine, but if you're going to try to back up your ideas with links, its natural that people will engage with the validity of the source. If you'd linked to a publication, for example, they'd have to engage with the science of it. In this case since its Quora, what's there to engage with? Anecdotes tell us nothing - perhaps 99.95% of people who tried it had no improvement and just didn't talk about it. This is not gatekeeping, nor are you being targeted, at least in this specific case. If you'd shared your own experience, that would give us something to discuss. For example, my ex is living with HIV, and it was a long road of treatments before he was out of the woods. His health was pretty poor when he was first diagnosed, and he was unresponsive to the first line of antiretrovirals (his particular strain was resistant) and it was upto me to manage his health on a daily basis. I can't speak to your specific personal situation that you speak of, but I can appreciate that sharing them on a forum doesn't offer us any extra cred with online strangers.
      - DoreenMichele 5y ago
        It's not uncharitable. It's highly qualified and based on more than twelve years of experience posting here. I know essentially nothing about HIV. I know a little something about using fasting to successfully treat an incurable condition. I didn't share that because it is routinely ridiculous levels of drama for me to comment on that and some people here absolutely remember me and target me. I have some mental models for why I think fasting is beneficial. I didn't share those because those amount to "personal opinion" and I can't back them up. I am happy to hear medical reasons why fasting is unlikely to work for HIV. That's mostly not the substance of the feedback I got initially.
    - rzz3 5y ago
      Totally agree with you with the gatekeeping. This is an informal conversation, and you’re just a random person from the internet. There’s no standard you must be held to, and people shouldn’t take what you say to be some statement of empirical fact.
      - DoreenMichele 5y ago
        Thank you. Let's posit that I'm completely batshit insane and deluded and imagining that I have a genetic disorder and imagining that I'm getting better when doctors say that cannot be done. Let's assume the critics and haters are correct in that regard. It has zero bearing on whether or not fasting would help with HIV. Even if you sincerely believe that I'm completely nuts, you could have a constructive good faith discussion with me about the medical details of how HIV works and whether or not fasting has any reasonable hope of being useful treatment for that specific condition. And if I were nuts, talking to me about exactly how HIV works without being ugly and dismissive might make me less crazy and help find my way back from insanity to some kind of healthy relationship to reality whereas the kind of engagement I all too often get on medical topics is crazy making.

A Quara link full of anecdotal evidence isn't really support for your thesis.

DoreenMichele 5y ago

It's not a thesis. It's a comment on a discussion board.

valarauko 5y ago
It's clear that the parent comment is using "thesis" = "premise/claim" in this context, and it's a reasonable use of the word.
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  It's an unreasonable standard though, one to which I seem to frequently be held for bullshit reasons that appear to me to boil down to "We refuse to believe that you know anything about health topics and also require you in specific to meet a higher standard than other posters just making conversation." It's a means to gatekeep me out of medical discussion because people don't like the idea that I'm getting healthier when doctors say that cannot be done and rather than engage in meaningful discussion, I fairly often receive a dismissive pile on of replies in a way that I do not believe is the norm for HN. I don't have to defend it or prove a claim. I didn't make a claim. I stated as clearly as I know how that it made me wonder x and so I did a search. This should not be drama of any sort. Other people routinely make conversation on medical topics and aren't given a hard time for it. Other people in this discussion are making conversation about donating cord blood to research. No one is required to be a medical professional to participate in medical discussion here. No one is required to defend their interest in such subjects. Except apparently me. Probably because of my personal situation and people having some issue with that.
  - valarauko 5y ago
    I think that's an incredibly uncharitable take from this thread. Almost none of the people here are medical professionals, nor do I think most people here are familiar enough with usernames to target you in particular. You opinion is just as valuable as any others here. If anything, at least in this case I can see that providing a Quora page as "supporting link" works against you - because of the low quality of most Quora content. You mused about a possibility, and the comment engaged with your point at face value with a very reasonable response. They did not ask you to meet a "higher standard" or provide evidence for your idea. You escalated the discussion from there by suggesting that the Quora page is "supporting" - which it really isn't. Making conversation is fine, but if you're going to try to back up your ideas with links, its natural that people will engage with the validity of the source. If you'd linked to a publication, for example, they'd have to engage with the science of it. In this case since its Quora, what's there to engage with? Anecdotes tell us nothing - perhaps 99.95% of people who tried it had no improvement and just didn't talk about it. This is not gatekeeping, nor are you being targeted, at least in this specific case. If you'd shared your own experience, that would give us something to discuss. For example, my ex is living with HIV, and it was a long road of treatments before he was out of the woods. His health was pretty poor when he was first diagnosed, and he was unresponsive to the first line of antiretrovirals (his particular strain was resistant) and it was upto me to manage his health on a daily basis. I can't speak to your specific personal situation that you speak of, but I can appreciate that sharing them on a forum doesn't offer us any extra cred with online strangers.
    - DoreenMichele 5y ago
      It's not uncharitable. It's highly qualified and based on more than twelve years of experience posting here. I know essentially nothing about HIV. I know a little something about using fasting to successfully treat an incurable condition. I didn't share that because it is routinely ridiculous levels of drama for me to comment on that and some people here absolutely remember me and target me. I have some mental models for why I think fasting is beneficial. I didn't share those because those amount to "personal opinion" and I can't back them up. I am happy to hear medical reasons why fasting is unlikely to work for HIV. That's mostly not the substance of the feedback I got initially.
  - rzz3 5y ago
    Totally agree with you with the gatekeeping. This is an informal conversation, and you’re just a random person from the internet. There’s no standard you must be held to, and people shouldn’t take what you say to be some statement of empirical fact.
    - DoreenMichele 5y ago
      Thank you. Let's posit that I'm completely batshit insane and deluded and imagining that I have a genetic disorder and imagining that I'm getting better when doctors say that cannot be done. Let's assume the critics and haters are correct in that regard. It has zero bearing on whether or not fasting would help with HIV. Even if you sincerely believe that I'm completely nuts, you could have a constructive good faith discussion with me about the medical details of how HIV works and whether or not fasting has any reasonable hope of being useful treatment for that specific condition. And if I were nuts, talking to me about exactly how HIV works without being ugly and dismissive might make me less crazy and help find my way back from insanity to some kind of healthy relationship to reality whereas the kind of engagement I all too often get on medical topics is crazy making.