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From the article: > Inbox Zero might be impractical every day, but Inbox Organized happens without breaking a sweat. My experience is the absolute opposite. O

From the article: > Inbox Zero might be impractical every day, but Inbox Organized happens without breaking a sweat. My experience is the absolute opposite. Organising mails is a strange game, and the only winning move is not to play. I get the information out of the emails as soon as I can, and put it into a system that is actually manageable. GTD had it right from the start. Thank you David Allen. You want harsh feedback ? I'll never pay for your system, because it would lead to more work for me on the long run, not less. Emails are not todo list: todo list are mostly signal, while emails are mostly noise. Your system organize noise, and automatically. This has no value to me. But you could build a system that I actually need. An inbox that I would enjoy. Indeed, I don't need a system that help me organise my various sources of informations and tasks. I have so many of them that would be terrible even if it worked, anyway. Managing 20 organized systems in parallel is hell. I need systems that make it easy to extract the relevant informations from them, and put the result in one central organized place for action, and another one for archive. A system that filters noise, and get me in control. That's it. Eventually, my life is just that: being, doing and knowing. I don't need a system for the first. I don't want more than 2 systems for the 2 last.

jdauriemma 5y ago
> Organising mails is a strange game, and the only winning move is not to play. I laughed out loud at this, because you are 100% correct.
- Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
  How about a nice game of chess?
  - alberth 5y ago
    Love the War Games reference. https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/5d7f5bc3-4ceb-4d18-87f7-a146f9cb043f https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/5d7f5bc3-4ceb-4d18-87f7-a146f9c...
- xyst 5y ago
  So true. I found that if an issue is really important, then they will find a way to contact you or it resolves automatically. If I really need to get a context, I'll search for the recipient's name and get instant context on the "issue". My solution is just to never delete any e-mails. Inbox zero is a complete waste of time for me.
andrei_says_ 5y ago
It’s a modern Sysyphus scenario. I could do it, if I did nothing else, and it would not contribute to my doing any useful work and I’d be at the bottom of the hill tomorrow morning.
user3939382 5y ago
I’ve been keeping my inbox perfectly organized for years, and it is my todo list. If I want to add an item that didn’t originate from a third-party email, I email myself. A pin/star means it’s waiting for me to be done. No pin/star means it came in but I haven’t assessed it yet, these tend to be on top. I get email notices for voicemail so it’s a central funnel. I extensively use filters/labels to keep automated mail out of my main inbox. I aggressively unsubscribe from anything non-essential. Everyone has their own preferences but this works great for me.
joefigura 5y ago
I've been using Shortwave in Alpha for about five months and I think you're reacting far too strongly to one line in the blog post. The product does a bunch of things that encourage an Inbox-zero workflow. Emails are organized as a to-do list, and the archive feature is way more prominent than in Gmail, so the most natural workflow is to go down your inbox and check things off. Most of the organization described happens automatically. And the organization helps getting to zero - all of the confluence notifications I get, for instance, are grouped in a single thread and I can scan and archive them quickly. I get to inbox zero 2-3 times a week, and that wasn't happening before when I was using the Gmail client. > I need systems that make it easy to extract the relevant informations from them, and put the result in one central organized place for action, and another one for archive. A system that filters noise, and get me in control. That's it. Yes! In my experience Shortwave is better at this than the client I was using previously. I think it actually addresses some of your issues with email.
- scrozier 5y ago
  I think GP is correct. This essentially takes the idea of a lean to-do list and constantly barrages it with junk (email). I've used the Get Things Done ideas for years with a plain ol' email account and Microsoft To-Do. Each does its job well. When you try to make one thing do multiple jobs, it's often done poorly in both.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
noirbot 5y ago
This is also just a complete misread of the original Inbox Zero talk, and something Merlin Mann complains about every time he tries a new email app that does confetti when you hit "inbox zero". He himself is a deep GTD/David Allen acolyte anyway, but at this point people's misread of what "inbox zero" means is too mainstream and cargo culted.
replwoacause 5y ago
I couldn't agree less. I've tried so many task and todo systems and ultimately have come to the conclusion that the most effective todo list I've ever had is my email inbox. I pick one up and then fail to fully embrace it because forming new habits can be hard. Email on the other hand, is impossible to avoid, I have to be in it every day. I've yearned for a better way to manage it and I think this product addresses that. Unfortunately I won't be a customer though because I hate Google and am a happy Fastmail user.

jdauriemma 5y ago

> Organising mails is a strange game, and the only winning move is not to play. I laughed out loud at this, because you are 100% correct.

Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
How about a nice game of chess?
- alberth 5y ago
  Love the War Games reference. https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/5d7f5bc3-4ceb-4d18-87f7-a146f9cb043f https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/5d7f5bc3-4ceb-4d18-87f7-a146f9c...
xyst 5y ago
So true. I found that if an issue is really important, then they will find a way to contact you or it resolves automatically. If I really need to get a context, I'll search for the recipient's name and get instant context on the "issue". My solution is just to never delete any e-mails. Inbox zero is a complete waste of time for me.

andrei_says_ 5y ago

It’s a modern Sysyphus scenario. I could do it, if I did nothing else, and it would not contribute to my doing any useful work and I’d be at the bottom of the hill tomorrow morning.

user3939382 5y ago

I’ve been keeping my inbox perfectly organized for years, and it is my todo list. If I want to add an item that didn’t originate from a third-party email, I email myself. A pin/star means it’s waiting for me to be done. No pin/star means it came in but I haven’t assessed it yet, these tend to be on top. I get email notices for voicemail so it’s a central funnel. I extensively use filters/labels to keep automated mail out of my main inbox. I aggressively unsubscribe from anything non-essential. Everyone has their own preferences but this works great for me.

joefigura 5y ago

I've been using Shortwave in Alpha for about five months and I think you're reacting far too strongly to one line in the blog post. The product does a bunch of things that encourage an Inbox-zero workflow. Emails are organized as a to-do list, and the archive feature is way more prominent than in Gmail, so the most natural workflow is to go down your inbox and check things off. Most of the organization described happens automatically. And the organization helps getting to zero - all of the confluence notifications I get, for instance, are grouped in a single thread and I can scan and archive them quickly. I get to inbox zero 2-3 times a week, and that wasn't happening before when I was using the Gmail client. > I need systems that make it easy to extract the relevant informations from them, and put the result in one central organized place for action, and another one for archive. A system that filters noise, and get me in control. That's it. Yes! In my experience Shortwave is better at this than the client I was using previously. I think it actually addresses some of your issues with email.

scrozier 5y ago
I think GP is correct. This essentially takes the idea of a lean to-do list and constantly barrages it with junk (email). I've used the Get Things Done ideas for years with a plain ol' email account and Microsoft To-Do. Each does its job well. When you try to make one thing do multiple jobs, it's often done poorly in both.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

noirbot 5y ago

This is also just a complete misread of the original Inbox Zero talk, and something Merlin Mann complains about every time he tries a new email app that does confetti when you hit "inbox zero". He himself is a deep GTD/David Allen acolyte anyway, but at this point people's misread of what "inbox zero" means is too mainstream and cargo culted.

replwoacause 5y ago

I couldn't agree less. I've tried so many task and todo systems and ultimately have come to the conclusion that the most effective todo list I've ever had is my email inbox. I pick one up and then fail to fully embrace it because forming new habits can be hard. Email on the other hand, is impossible to avoid, I have to be in it every day. I've yearned for a better way to manage it and I think this product addresses that. Unfortunately I won't be a customer though because I hate Google and am a happy Fastmail user.