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I'm not asserting every single conservative fits this mold, or that you can't cherry-pick pundits who still play fair. But most of what the right wing is orient

I'm not asserting every single conservative fits this mold, or that you can't cherry-pick pundits who still play fair. But most of what the right wing is oriented around today is attacking the free press, stifling public education, making voting more difficult for urban citizens and pretending, loudly and constantly, that the last election was stolen. Where are the policy proposals? What major legislation did conservatives pass during the previous Republican administration when they had a trifecta? What was the Republican Party platform in 2020? And why is the RNC choosing not to allow a debate in 2024? This is not a party with lots of ideas ready to fight for the hearts and minds of voters.

PathOfEclipse 5y ago
Yes, and I'm asserting that 90+% of conservatives don't fit the mold you are casting. That was the point of my response. You can find crazies on both sides of the political aisle. One of trump's failures is that he isn't a good statesman and so failed to unite his own party, which caused a lot of failures in the legislative process as people like John McCain voted against him just because they hated him. I sincerely wish Trump doesn't run in 2024, not because I think he would do worse than Biden (he would have been 100x better than Biden), but because his greatest strengths are also his biggest flaws, and I don't think he can lead the country effectively. The general platform of conservatives is: "this is the greatest civilization in history we've inherited. Please stop screwing it up so badly!" That may be different from the RNC platform, but Republicans at least align with conservative values more closely than democrats, so we don't have much choice but to vote for them. Unfortunately, conservatives have rarely been dominant even within the Republican party, and many anti-conservative measures have been perpetrated by Republican presidents. I agree we need new and better ideas to go mainstream in the party, though not that these ideas don't exist. Among the weaknesses of the Republican party in the past decade have been the unwillingness of the party elites to sense the times and pay attention to their constituents or to the looming culture wars. As it is most of the time, the strongest argument to vote for a party is not that that party is great, but that the other party is worse. I have no solution for that.
- jamincan 5y ago
  Doesn't a majority of Republican voters believe the 2021 election was stolen? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/24/republicans-2020-election-poll-trump-biden https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/24/republicans-...
  - bavell 5y ago
    The poll you are citing looks like it asked if Republicans thought trump was the "true president". I could see a lot of republicans responding flippantly just to poke fun and see some feathers get ruffled. Also, N = ~750 Republicans polled over 2 days but they extrapolate the results to the entire country? Not exactly rigorous science here.
- standardUser 5y ago
  Polling consistently shows that the majority of Republican voters do not think Biden won the 2020 election. In my mind, that proves your theory false. A recent UMass poll found that 71% of Republicans think Biden's election was definitely (46%) or probably (25%) not legitimate. In an Ipsos poll last year, 53% of Republicans when asked who "the true President is right now" said Donald Trump. There are dozens of polls showing the exact same thing. You're also ignoring the 147 elected members of Congress that voted against certifying the election results, and the countless mainstream conservatives politicians and pundits who are constantly promoting provably false conspiracy theories, and not just the Big Lie, often it's even far more nonsensical garbage. This is not a fringe movement, this is the mainstream Republican Party.
- JTrilogy 5y ago
  I don’t think the stats agree with you. A December 2021 poll by UMass Amherst showed only 21% of Republicans thought Biden’s election was legitimate[1] and 54% blamed the Jan6 violence on Democrats or the Capitol Police.[2] The numbers are almost the same when broken up by ideology (conservative/independant/liberal) instead of party affiliation. It’s not an issue of “crazies on both sides” — mainstream conservative views of recent events are detached from reality. There’s a pipeline of misinformation that starts with white nationalists, runs through InfoWars and their ilk, and eventually leads to OANN and Fox News. Keeping the audience’s attention is the top priority, so facts matter less than feelings. [1]: https://polsci.umass.edu/toplines-and-crosstabs-december-2021-national-poll-presidential-election-jan-6th-insurrection-us https://polsci.umass.edu/toplines-and-crosstabs-december-202... [2]: https://polsci.umass.edu/sites/default/files/Jan6thAnniversaryCrosstabs.pdf https://polsci.umass.edu/sites/default/files/Jan6thAnniversa... (page 5)

PathOfEclipse 5y ago

Yes, and I'm asserting that 90+% of conservatives don't fit the mold you are casting. That was the point of my response. You can find crazies on both sides of the political aisle. One of trump's failures is that he isn't a good statesman and so failed to unite his own party, which caused a lot of failures in the legislative process as people like John McCain voted against him just because they hated him. I sincerely wish Trump doesn't run in 2024, not because I think he would do worse than Biden (he would have been 100x better than Biden), but because his greatest strengths are also his biggest flaws, and I don't think he can lead the country effectively. The general platform of conservatives is: "this is the greatest civilization in history we've inherited. Please stop screwing it up so badly!" That may be different from the RNC platform, but Republicans at least align with conservative values more closely than democrats, so we don't have much choice but to vote for them. Unfortunately, conservatives have rarely been dominant even within the Republican party, and many anti-conservative measures have been perpetrated by Republican presidents. I agree we need new and better ideas to go mainstream in the party, though not that these ideas don't exist. Among the weaknesses of the Republican party in the past decade have been the unwillingness of the party elites to sense the times and pay attention to their constituents or to the looming culture wars. As it is most of the time, the strongest argument to vote for a party is not that that party is great, but that the other party is worse. I have no solution for that.

jamincan 5y ago
Doesn't a majority of Republican voters believe the 2021 election was stolen? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/24/republicans-2020-election-poll-trump-biden https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/24/republicans-...
- bavell 5y ago
  The poll you are citing looks like it asked if Republicans thought trump was the "true president". I could see a lot of republicans responding flippantly just to poke fun and see some feathers get ruffled. Also, N = ~750 Republicans polled over 2 days but they extrapolate the results to the entire country? Not exactly rigorous science here.
standardUser 5y ago
Polling consistently shows that the majority of Republican voters do not think Biden won the 2020 election. In my mind, that proves your theory false. A recent UMass poll found that 71% of Republicans think Biden's election was definitely (46%) or probably (25%) not legitimate. In an Ipsos poll last year, 53% of Republicans when asked who "the true President is right now" said Donald Trump. There are dozens of polls showing the exact same thing. You're also ignoring the 147 elected members of Congress that voted against certifying the election results, and the countless mainstream conservatives politicians and pundits who are constantly promoting provably false conspiracy theories, and not just the Big Lie, often it's even far more nonsensical garbage. This is not a fringe movement, this is the mainstream Republican Party.
JTrilogy 5y ago
I don’t think the stats agree with you. A December 2021 poll by UMass Amherst showed only 21% of Republicans thought Biden’s election was legitimate[1] and 54% blamed the Jan6 violence on Democrats or the Capitol Police.[2] The numbers are almost the same when broken up by ideology (conservative/independant/liberal) instead of party affiliation. It’s not an issue of “crazies on both sides” — mainstream conservative views of recent events are detached from reality. There’s a pipeline of misinformation that starts with white nationalists, runs through InfoWars and their ilk, and eventually leads to OANN and Fox News. Keeping the audience’s attention is the top priority, so facts matter less than feelings. [1]: https://polsci.umass.edu/toplines-and-crosstabs-december-2021-national-poll-presidential-election-jan-6th-insurrection-us https://polsci.umass.edu/toplines-and-crosstabs-december-202... [2]: https://polsci.umass.edu/sites/default/files/Jan6thAnniversaryCrosstabs.pdf https://polsci.umass.edu/sites/default/files/Jan6thAnniversa... (page 5)