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Ask HN: Why don't universities have majors for people who want to be indie devs?

2 points by amichail 5y ago

Working as a solo indie dev is very different from working as a software engineer for someone else. And maybe, there should be a separate university degree to reflect that.

PaulHoule 5y ago
Business with a minor in CS? The other way around? Dual major? Some schools like Cornell Tech have masters programs focused on entrepreneurship too.
mytailorisrich 5y ago
This is very niche and is just standard software dev + business side of things, which can be achieved with a minor as PaulHoule commented.
marto1 5y ago
Some universities have incubators or something similar. Basically you get a small grant for what a board perceives as a valuable idea and you have a given time to try to make it work. Here's one for example: https://www.buffalo.edu/partnerships/about/centers-facilities-equipment/incubators.html https://www.buffalo.edu/partnerships/about/centers-facilitie...
giantg2 5y ago
Why not just do a CS major with a business minor?
jqpabc123 5y ago
Valid points are raised by others regarding business knowledge. But I would argue that the primary reason here is because the skills needed to be a successful indie developer have never been formally defined. They are more art than science. You can't really teach *artistic* talent. There is no one correct way to do art --- or launch a business. You can learn accounting, finance and marketing --- but it won't teach you the core skills needed to be successful. Lots of *successful* entrepreneurs simply hire these skills as needed. Picasso didn't have a degree in art and Gates didn't have a degree in indie dev.
joshink1 5y ago
I'd argue that university degrees don't even sufficiently prepare students to work for someone else. A lot of the "soft skills" required for career success such as: self-marketing, business communication, personal finance, sales, politics, etc... are picked up on the job or from the environment (parents, networks, ...). A potential solo indie-dev would probably be resourceful enough to go the autodidact path, or cherry-pick their own course plan at a university. Since credentials are less important for a self-employed person, they can get the same value from learning resources.
- MaknMoreGtnLess 5y ago
  > I'd argue that university degrees don't even sufficiently prepare students to work for someone else Well, it does filter out those who consistently fail to respect a process and deadlines. A smart businessman can buildout a proven, reproducible process and then employ people with a proven track record of following processes even if those employees are without any experience.
  - joshink1 5y ago
    It’s a noisy and expensive filter at that. The low SES folks (anyone who has to work-study really) will be unfairly selected against per degree completion. That seems like the innate personality trait of conscientiousness, not something trained into a person through 4 years of artificial tasks and goals, at least not reliably at scale.
MaknMoreGtnLess 5y ago
It doesn't make a lot of sense learning vocational training at a university. Getting a certificate in entrepreneurship without having started your own company from scratch is as useful as having a certificate in painting without having raised a brush. OTOH, if you do raise a brush, you can just go ahead, paint as much as you want, make mistakes, learn from it. Eventually you will discover a style you like that you can then audit a few university art courses about. Most teachers/profs/entrepreneurs will even help you for free because although they are in it for the money, they also enjoy it. Unless your objective was to be an art historian and gain a wide exposure to all and everything art or you want credentials to gain entry to an art studio etc.

2 points by amichail 5y ago

Working as a solo indie dev is very different from working as a software engineer for someone else. And maybe, there should be a separate university degree to reflect that.

PaulHoule 5y ago

Business with a minor in CS? The other way around? Dual major? Some schools like Cornell Tech have masters programs focused on entrepreneurship too.

mytailorisrich 5y ago

This is very niche and is just standard software dev + business side of things, which can be achieved with a minor as PaulHoule commented.

marto1 5y ago

Some universities have incubators or something similar. Basically you get a small grant for what a board perceives as a valuable idea and you have a given time to try to make it work. Here's one for example: https://www.buffalo.edu/partnerships/about/centers-facilities-equipment/incubators.html https://www.buffalo.edu/partnerships/about/centers-facilitie...

giantg2 5y ago

Why not just do a CS major with a business minor?

jqpabc123 5y ago

Valid points are raised by others regarding business knowledge. But I would argue that the primary reason here is because the skills needed to be a successful indie developer have never been formally defined. They are more art than science. You can't really teach *artistic* talent. There is no one correct way to do art --- or launch a business. You can learn accounting, finance and marketing --- but it won't teach you the core skills needed to be successful. Lots of *successful* entrepreneurs simply hire these skills as needed. Picasso didn't have a degree in art and Gates didn't have a degree in indie dev.

joshink1 5y ago

I'd argue that university degrees don't even sufficiently prepare students to work for someone else. A lot of the "soft skills" required for career success such as: self-marketing, business communication, personal finance, sales, politics, etc... are picked up on the job or from the environment (parents, networks, ...). A potential solo indie-dev would probably be resourceful enough to go the autodidact path, or cherry-pick their own course plan at a university. Since credentials are less important for a self-employed person, they can get the same value from learning resources.

MaknMoreGtnLess 5y ago
> I'd argue that university degrees don't even sufficiently prepare students to work for someone else Well, it does filter out those who consistently fail to respect a process and deadlines. A smart businessman can buildout a proven, reproducible process and then employ people with a proven track record of following processes even if those employees are without any experience.
- joshink1 5y ago
  It’s a noisy and expensive filter at that. The low SES folks (anyone who has to work-study really) will be unfairly selected against per degree completion. That seems like the innate personality trait of conscientiousness, not something trained into a person through 4 years of artificial tasks and goals, at least not reliably at scale.

MaknMoreGtnLess 5y ago

It doesn't make a lot of sense learning vocational training at a university. Getting a certificate in entrepreneurship without having started your own company from scratch is as useful as having a certificate in painting without having raised a brush. OTOH, if you do raise a brush, you can just go ahead, paint as much as you want, make mistakes, learn from it. Eventually you will discover a style you like that you can then audit a few university art courses about. Most teachers/profs/entrepreneurs will even help you for free because although they are in it for the money, they also enjoy it. Unless your objective was to be an art historian and gain a wide exposure to all and everything art or you want credentials to gain entry to an art studio etc.