>OK, so you're redefining Starship into "expendable second stage". That's not redefining, just SpaceX's confusing naming I guess but I thought I was quite clea

>OK, so you're redefining Starship into "expendable second stage". That's not redefining, just SpaceX's confusing naming I guess but I thought I was quite clear for anyone who knows about the system. The "Starship launch system" consists of a first stage named Super Heavy (SH) and a second stage also named Starship (SS). It was obvious I was talking about expended second stage "Starship" because I explicitly noted that Super Heavy was important to land, why, and additionally why I thought that was also relatively feasible compared to the SS parts. >I don't think that was inherently clear to anyone but you. Only if you didn't actually bother to read the comment or don't know anything about Starship but are choosing to comment anyway. Yes, all of us wish that "Starship" wasn't an overloaded term, but it is. The context nevertheless was very clear. What else did you think I was talking about with Super Heavy? >I don't think that's the definition the parent poster meant in the context of "Starship is going to take years longer than originally predicted". It seems fairly clear given both the article and their "Starship is incredibly ambitious but if it doesn't reach orbit before 2025 I won't be surprised" statement? OP didn't write "if the second stage doesn't have full reuse before 2025 I won't be surprised", they wrote reach orbit. Please explain how else you can parse that except a claim that Starship won't reach orbit? And a refined expended second stage would still absolutely slaughter SLS and everything else too. And yes, I'd be surprised if it took them dozens and dozens of attempts to get SS to survive reentry, they've got plenty of mass margin for it and fundamental advantages vs a range of other reentry systems including the shuttle, and as far as landing, well they've already demonstrated the most aggressive version landing maneuver successfully! So I don't think it's going to take them 3+ years after getting to orbit to land SS.