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If I'm Apple, when do I accept that the writing is on the wall... It will be an interesting WWDC.

dan_hawkins 5y ago
DHH just posted: https://world.hey.com/dhh/gritting-your-teeth-biding-your-time-6d38aefd https://world.hey.com/dhh/gritting-your-teeth-biding-your-ti...
ocdtrekkie 5y ago
> when do I accept that the writing is on the wall... When the penalty becomes larger than the profit from noncompliance. It's simple math: As long as the penalties they are charged cost them less than 30% of all app sale revenue, it makes sense for them to continue to demand the 30% and fight any attempts to make them charge less. It's why I continue to think the solution is to put CEOs in jail: It changes the equation, and noncompliance is no longer considered a possible option for the business.
- anonymousab 5y ago
  > It's why I continue to think the solution is to put CEOs in jail: It changes the equation, and noncompliance is no longer considered a possible option for the business. Alternatively, jail the company itself; for some period of time (days? Weeks?) it is unable to conduct any business, run any services, transfer or process any money, etc. Let imprisonment be as potentially life-ruining for a company as it is for the average man.
  - ocdtrekkie 5y ago
    Possibly, but if we're going to punish corporations, why not put capital punishment on the table? At what scale of massive recurring societal harm (Google, Facebook, etc.) should we confiscate all assets, disband the company, and auction off everything.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      There's two different things here with different answers: > At what scale of massive recurring societal harm (Google, Facebook, etc.) should we confiscate all assets [...] and auction off anything. At the point where criminal fines and civil damages and penalties exceed the value of assets of the firm. > disband the company This is less clear. A difference between a juridical and a natural person is that you can't simply swap out the decision-making apparatus of a natural person. You can, if need be, to a juridical person like a corporation, so its not clear what purpose disbanding the firm (whether assets not needed to be obligations are returned or seized—the former being more analogous to the death penalty) serves.
simion314 5y ago
>when do I accept that the writing is on the wall.. The giants will not stop if the bad behavior still makes profit, Apple will add one more exception for the narrow case in each country they lose, and when they lose again will add a new super narrow exception. This will continue until US force them to allow real choice for the users and be transparent about things(force them to replace "Buy" with "Rent", allow users to be informed about better alternatives, allow users to disable censorship )
- KerrAvon 5y ago
  Replacing "Buy" with "Rent" is something you will never convince non-tech people to care about. That ship sailed when EULAs were deemed legal. Pushing it will just confuse people and I'd argue muddy the waters for the truly important things.
  - simion314 5y ago
    People can learn, you will need to make public stories like "Person X "bought" music/books from store X in value of 10K and now he can't access it because some bullshit EULA" "person Y "bought" 1 year subscription but was banned for 6 months by an algorithm, no right to appeal and no refunds" <- something similar happened to me Person Z bought a device but after 1 month an update crippled it, W bought a device and the platform owner crippled the included browser and made it impossible to install a usable alternative.
    - gjsman-1000 5y ago
      PlayStation 3 had OtherOS allowing Linux installation, then removed it with an update, settled years later for a paltry $55 for anyone who could prove they used the function and $9 for anyone who claimed to have purchased it based on the functionality or couldn't prove they used it.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    They still aren't legal in many European countries.
- 5y ago
thetinguy 5y ago
I think they’ll just get rid of iTS support and some amount of fraud protection.
viro 5y ago
Great, Dark patterns now coming to iOS.

DHH just posted: https://world.hey.com/dhh/gritting-your-teeth-biding-your-time-6d38aefd https://world.hey.com/dhh/gritting-your-teeth-biding-your-ti...

ocdtrekkie 5y ago

> when do I accept that the writing is on the wall... When the penalty becomes larger than the profit from noncompliance. It's simple math: As long as the penalties they are charged cost them less than 30% of all app sale revenue, it makes sense for them to continue to demand the 30% and fight any attempts to make them charge less. It's why I continue to think the solution is to put CEOs in jail: It changes the equation, and noncompliance is no longer considered a possible option for the business.

anonymousab 5y ago
> It's why I continue to think the solution is to put CEOs in jail: It changes the equation, and noncompliance is no longer considered a possible option for the business. Alternatively, jail the company itself; for some period of time (days? Weeks?) it is unable to conduct any business, run any services, transfer or process any money, etc. Let imprisonment be as potentially life-ruining for a company as it is for the average man.
- ocdtrekkie 5y ago
  Possibly, but if we're going to punish corporations, why not put capital punishment on the table? At what scale of massive recurring societal harm (Google, Facebook, etc.) should we confiscate all assets, disband the company, and auction off everything.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    There's two different things here with different answers: > At what scale of massive recurring societal harm (Google, Facebook, etc.) should we confiscate all assets [...] and auction off anything. At the point where criminal fines and civil damages and penalties exceed the value of assets of the firm. > disband the company This is less clear. A difference between a juridical and a natural person is that you can't simply swap out the decision-making apparatus of a natural person. You can, if need be, to a juridical person like a corporation, so its not clear what purpose disbanding the firm (whether assets not needed to be obligations are returned or seized—the former being more analogous to the death penalty) serves.

simion314 5y ago

>when do I accept that the writing is on the wall.. The giants will not stop if the bad behavior still makes profit, Apple will add one more exception for the narrow case in each country they lose, and when they lose again will add a new super narrow exception. This will continue until US force them to allow real choice for the users and be transparent about things(force them to replace "Buy" with "Rent", allow users to be informed about better alternatives, allow users to disable censorship )

KerrAvon 5y ago
Replacing "Buy" with "Rent" is something you will never convince non-tech people to care about. That ship sailed when EULAs were deemed legal. Pushing it will just confuse people and I'd argue muddy the waters for the truly important things.
- simion314 5y ago
  People can learn, you will need to make public stories like "Person X "bought" music/books from store X in value of 10K and now he can't access it because some bullshit EULA" "person Y "bought" 1 year subscription but was banned for 6 months by an algorithm, no right to appeal and no refunds" <- something similar happened to me Person Z bought a device but after 1 month an update crippled it, W bought a device and the platform owner crippled the included browser and made it impossible to install a usable alternative.
  - gjsman-1000 5y ago
    PlayStation 3 had OtherOS allowing Linux installation, then removed it with an update, settled years later for a paltry $55 for anyone who could prove they used the function and $9 for anyone who claimed to have purchased it based on the functionality or couldn't prove they used it.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  They still aren't legal in many European countries.
5y ago

thetinguy 5y ago

I think they’ll just get rid of iTS support and some amount of fraud protection.

viro 5y ago

Great, Dark patterns now coming to iOS.