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Is there a viable solution to keeping the locks secure while providing TSA a way to access the bag contents? The locks must not be compromised. Instead, locks

Is there a viable solution to keeping the locks secure while providing TSA a way to access the bag contents? The locks must not be compromised. Instead, locks get unique serial numbers. TSA gets portable CNCs specifically designed to make keys, and mills the keys they want by scanning (qr/nfc) the serial no.

drewmol 5y ago
I’ve heard traveling with a flare gun checked in your luggage allows for standard lock usage, which will require you be present for bag searches (at lease domestically, US). Not what you are asking for but a cleaver ‘hack’ non the less.
- bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
  First heard about this at DEFCON at a great presentation titled: Packing and the Friendly Skies. [0] He makes a great case for keeping your laptop with your gun as the only way to guarantee its physical security. [0] https://youtu.be/KfqtYfaILHw https://youtu.be/KfqtYfaILHw
  - antihero 5y ago
    I feel like this would go poorly in Europe
    - 908B64B197 5y ago
      European's attitude toward basic second amendment rights is weird. The Royal Family having full gun rooms is ok and a tradition but the blebs even having access to a basic weapon is “problematic”.
      - iakov 5y ago
        European attitude towards guns differs a lot by country. In Czechia for example getting a license is straightforward and lots of people have small firearms. They just don’t fetishize it and brandish it at every opportunity.
    - bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
      Actually, provided you are legally temporarily importing your weapon for something like a sporting event, this happens all the time in (some countries) in Europe.[0][1] [0] https://www.lufthansa.com/ba/en/sports-baggage https://www.lufthansa.com/ba/en/sports-baggage [1] https://www.pewpewtactical.com/international-travel-firearms/ https://www.pewpewtactical.com/international-travel-firearms...
    - varjag 5y ago
      You can travel with guns in much of Europe just fine. Also, you can lock with whatever the hell you want in Europe so the whole point is moot.
      - antihero 5y ago
        > you can lock with whatever the hell you want in Europe But can't they break it off without you present anyway?
        varjag 5y ago
        They can but the idea is to protect against opportunistic theft by luggage handlers. A broken lock also makes your insurance claim a lot easier.
gjsman-1000 5y ago
Actually, that's an interesting idea for a startup. What if every lock had a serial number (maybe on a scannable QR code?), and the serial number goes through an algorithm and creates a unique key shape from it. That key is provided to the consumer and the TSA can recreate that key by entering said serial number into the proprietary algorithm. You'd need some sort of super-fast-3D printer, but I don't think exceptional accuracy would be necessary. You could even have the keys printed as the bag is working its way through the chute to the officers. Better than the current system... (I don't think this solution is perfect, but it's better than either having your lock broken off, or having your lock be vulnerable to one of 7 known TSA keys.)
- gpm 5y ago
  I bet that you could make a fancy key with retractable teeth that could be set to any lock bitting. Seems likely to be cheaper (and definitely faster) than manufacturing a new key for every lock.
  - thatguy0900 5y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2K_WgL71Ro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2K_WgL71Ro doesn't need to be a traditional key, really, if you know the bitting
- netsharc 5y ago
  I'm amazed no one's mentioned blockchain yet, as a solution looking for a problem (and ponzi whale money).
- xoa 5y ago
  Interesting idea, and even more potentialy practical than you suggest: >You'd need some sort of super-fast-3D printer Nah, just a modern electronic key duplicator. You can find a lot of kiosks and such these days that make use of tools like JMA's Multicode electronic key cutting machine [0]. No need for additive manufacturing here, just have a standard blank and very high precision fast subtractive is mature technology. Would not at all be a big deal to just feed an algorithm generated pattern into it instead of having it scan an existing key. In fact, I don't think the algorithm even necessarily needs to be proprietary or secret here? The specific threat scenario in this case involves those with brief access to the luggage between when you drop it off with the airport for flight and when you retrieve it again at arrival. Key cutting machines aren't exactly pocketable, so the fact that theoretically somebody could go to any kiosk or private machine and make copied keys in practice doesn't mean they can bring a machine into the cargo area and make use of it in real time. And with mass variation of keys and no single master, there is no way for an attacker to just have all the keys needed with them. Even the cost doesn't seem like more than a drop in the bucket on the scale of these things. I don't know if it's actually a significant enough deal to bother with, but if it was this does seem like a potential easy low tech solution. ---- 0: http://www.jmausa.com/productosdetalle.aspx?idproducto=157 http://www.jmausa.com/productosdetalle.aspx?idproducto=157
kube-system 5y ago
That’s just a more expensive lock with the same effective security. What attack profile would it protect against? Any thief who wants to go through the trouble to getting TSA master keys can just as easily cut your uniquely serialized lock, exploit or cut the bag, or walk away with the entire bag. The security of a luggage lock is provided entirely by deterrence. Even with a TSA lock on your luggage, the weakest security link is not the lock’s core.

drewmol 5y ago

I’ve heard traveling with a flare gun checked in your luggage allows for standard lock usage, which will require you be present for bag searches (at lease domestically, US). Not what you are asking for but a cleaver ‘hack’ non the less.

bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
First heard about this at DEFCON at a great presentation titled: Packing and the Friendly Skies. [0] He makes a great case for keeping your laptop with your gun as the only way to guarantee its physical security. [0] https://youtu.be/KfqtYfaILHw https://youtu.be/KfqtYfaILHw
- antihero 5y ago
  I feel like this would go poorly in Europe
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    European's attitude toward basic second amendment rights is weird. The Royal Family having full gun rooms is ok and a tradition but the blebs even having access to a basic weapon is “problematic”.
    - iakov 5y ago
      European attitude towards guns differs a lot by country. In Czechia for example getting a license is straightforward and lots of people have small firearms. They just don’t fetishize it and brandish it at every opportunity.
  - bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
    Actually, provided you are legally temporarily importing your weapon for something like a sporting event, this happens all the time in (some countries) in Europe.[0][1] [0] https://www.lufthansa.com/ba/en/sports-baggage https://www.lufthansa.com/ba/en/sports-baggage [1] https://www.pewpewtactical.com/international-travel-firearms/ https://www.pewpewtactical.com/international-travel-firearms...
  - varjag 5y ago
    You can travel with guns in much of Europe just fine. Also, you can lock with whatever the hell you want in Europe so the whole point is moot.
    - antihero 5y ago
      > you can lock with whatever the hell you want in Europe But can't they break it off without you present anyway?
      - varjag 5y ago
        They can but the idea is to protect against opportunistic theft by luggage handlers. A broken lock also makes your insurance claim a lot easier.

gjsman-1000 5y ago

Actually, that's an interesting idea for a startup. What if every lock had a serial number (maybe on a scannable QR code?), and the serial number goes through an algorithm and creates a unique key shape from it. That key is provided to the consumer and the TSA can recreate that key by entering said serial number into the proprietary algorithm. You'd need some sort of super-fast-3D printer, but I don't think exceptional accuracy would be necessary. You could even have the keys printed as the bag is working its way through the chute to the officers. Better than the current system... (I don't think this solution is perfect, but it's better than either having your lock broken off, or having your lock be vulnerable to one of 7 known TSA keys.)

gpm 5y ago
I bet that you could make a fancy key with retractable teeth that could be set to any lock bitting. Seems likely to be cheaper (and definitely faster) than manufacturing a new key for every lock.
- thatguy0900 5y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2K_WgL71Ro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2K_WgL71Ro doesn't need to be a traditional key, really, if you know the bitting
netsharc 5y ago
I'm amazed no one's mentioned blockchain yet, as a solution looking for a problem (and ponzi whale money).
xoa 5y ago
Interesting idea, and even more potentialy practical than you suggest: >You'd need some sort of super-fast-3D printer Nah, just a modern electronic key duplicator. You can find a lot of kiosks and such these days that make use of tools like JMA's Multicode electronic key cutting machine [0]. No need for additive manufacturing here, just have a standard blank and very high precision fast subtractive is mature technology. Would not at all be a big deal to just feed an algorithm generated pattern into it instead of having it scan an existing key. In fact, I don't think the algorithm even necessarily needs to be proprietary or secret here? The specific threat scenario in this case involves those with brief access to the luggage between when you drop it off with the airport for flight and when you retrieve it again at arrival. Key cutting machines aren't exactly pocketable, so the fact that theoretically somebody could go to any kiosk or private machine and make copied keys in practice doesn't mean they can bring a machine into the cargo area and make use of it in real time. And with mass variation of keys and no single master, there is no way for an attacker to just have all the keys needed with them. Even the cost doesn't seem like more than a drop in the bucket on the scale of these things. I don't know if it's actually a significant enough deal to bother with, but if it was this does seem like a potential easy low tech solution. ---- 0: http://www.jmausa.com/productosdetalle.aspx?idproducto=157 http://www.jmausa.com/productosdetalle.aspx?idproducto=157

kube-system 5y ago

That’s just a more expensive lock with the same effective security. What attack profile would it protect against? Any thief who wants to go through the trouble to getting TSA master keys can just as easily cut your uniquely serialized lock, exploit or cut the bag, or walk away with the entire bag. The security of a luggage lock is provided entirely by deterrence. Even with a TSA lock on your luggage, the weakest security link is not the lock’s core.