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Amazon kindle TOS take 9 hours to read: https://inshorts.com/en/news/man-takes-9-hours-to-read-amazon-kindle-terms-and-conditions-1489663858404 https://inshorts

Amazon kindle TOS take 9 hours to read: https://inshorts.com/en/news/man-takes-9-hours-to-read-amazon-kindle-terms-and-conditions-1489663858404 https://inshorts.com/en/news/man-takes-9-hours-to-read-amazo.... That's if you understand it entirely, including the legalese, on the first read. That's for the kindle only, not for amazon the website, nor alexa or prime. I accepted 3 TOS last week, as a dev, it's almost part of my job description, but let's focus on normal people and say they don't accept TOS for Github, FIGMA or AWS, but only for stuff like youtube, gmail, msoffice, whatsapp, instagram, etc. Let's be _very_ optimistic and say you have 20 TOS (excluding IRL contracts such as the bank, insurance, etc) forced on you every year by services: Apple, Google, Microsoft, Mozilla, Telegram, Facebook all have different TOS for difference services. Then you have the TOS updates, that don't come as a diff of the previous one, but as a haystack with the changes as needles. So let's say 10 more to read, again. Let's average reading time to 5 hours (I'm being very generous), and assume you understand the implications (at this point, it's not generosity, it's abnegation). That's 30 * 5, or 150 hours, that you are supposed to spend each year on reading those ? What do you do, take 3 weeks of vacation just for that ? Also don't forget to sleep, eat healthy, exercise, educate yourself, and socialize. I hope you don't have a full time job or kids.

jevoten 5y ago
And what if, after reading the ToS, they object to some clause? Their only recourse is not using the service. Object to more than a handful, and soon your only option is living in a cave. That, or push for legislation that limits what may be put into contracts, clickthrough or others. But since contracts are sacrosanct, and the highest purpose of society and the law is enforcing them, that option is off the table.
jdkjs 5y ago
Then don’t use the services. I wouldn’t sign a contract without reading it. “Your honour, I had no time to read the contract, therefore it’s void” seems a bad excuse.
- tapoxi 5y ago
  But could you claim that the contract is arbitrarily long and complex to knowingly discourage a reasonable person from reading it?
  - jdkjs 5y ago
    If you don’t have the legal expertise or the time to read a contract you hire a lawyer to have him see if the contract is reasonable, or you don’t sign it.
- anonymousab 5y ago
  Or society can just treat shitty ToS clauses as invalid because the good of the individual is far more important than being fair to powerful ultra corporations.
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago
  So, don't use the internet, a smartphone or a laptop. Because there is a TOS or CLUE coming with Android, iOS, Windows, MacOS, Firefox, Chrome, Edge... I'm assuming you didn't even read the TOS/CLUE required for you to post this comment. Don't shop online, at all. And I'm assuming you do, and didn't spend hours reading the TOS of all the sites you shop from. Don't send messages. Are you self hosting your email server ? Have you read your email provider TOS ? Each chat service TOS ? I doubt it. Don't what videos on youtube. Don't search on google search. Don't use GPS. You do that right ? Or have you actually read TOS for each service ? If you said yes to all of this, either you are lying, living in a cave, or you are Richard Stallman. In which case, nice to meet you.
  - jdkjs 5y ago
    I don’t read tos (as in contracts of online services) but I don’t cry when something unexpected happens because I didn’t read them. It’s my right to sign contracts without reading them. It’s not my right to pretend I didn’t sign them because I didn’t read them.
    - 5y ago
akomtu 5y ago
Even if you hire a lawyer to review that ToS, that would be a waste of time because every ToS has a clause "we can change the terms any time we want for any reason we want and it's your responsibility to read the new terms on our website". Most ToSes also refer to "additional terms" written elsewhere.

jevoten 5y ago

And what if, after reading the ToS, they object to some clause? Their only recourse is not using the service. Object to more than a handful, and soon your only option is living in a cave. That, or push for legislation that limits what may be put into contracts, clickthrough or others. But since contracts are sacrosanct, and the highest purpose of society and the law is enforcing them, that option is off the table.

jdkjs 5y ago

Then don’t use the services. I wouldn’t sign a contract without reading it. “Your honour, I had no time to read the contract, therefore it’s void” seems a bad excuse.

tapoxi 5y ago
But could you claim that the contract is arbitrarily long and complex to knowingly discourage a reasonable person from reading it?
- jdkjs 5y ago
  If you don’t have the legal expertise or the time to read a contract you hire a lawyer to have him see if the contract is reasonable, or you don’t sign it.
anonymousab 5y ago
Or society can just treat shitty ToS clauses as invalid because the good of the individual is far more important than being fair to powerful ultra corporations.
BiteCode_dev 5y ago
So, don't use the internet, a smartphone or a laptop. Because there is a TOS or CLUE coming with Android, iOS, Windows, MacOS, Firefox, Chrome, Edge... I'm assuming you didn't even read the TOS/CLUE required for you to post this comment. Don't shop online, at all. And I'm assuming you do, and didn't spend hours reading the TOS of all the sites you shop from. Don't send messages. Are you self hosting your email server ? Have you read your email provider TOS ? Each chat service TOS ? I doubt it. Don't what videos on youtube. Don't search on google search. Don't use GPS. You do that right ? Or have you actually read TOS for each service ? If you said yes to all of this, either you are lying, living in a cave, or you are Richard Stallman. In which case, nice to meet you.
- jdkjs 5y ago
  I don’t read tos (as in contracts of online services) but I don’t cry when something unexpected happens because I didn’t read them. It’s my right to sign contracts without reading them. It’s not my right to pretend I didn’t sign them because I didn’t read them.
  - 5y ago

akomtu 5y ago

Even if you hire a lawyer to review that ToS, that would be a waste of time because every ToS has a clause "we can change the terms any time we want for any reason we want and it's your responsibility to read the new terms on our website". Most ToSes also refer to "additional terms" written elsewhere.