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Phone number porting is a thing due to regulation. I'm looking forward to having email address porting legislation, one day. For full porting, there's a long r

Phone number porting is a thing due to regulation. I'm looking forward to having email address porting legislation, one day. For full porting, there's a long road ahead, starting with regulating domain names, which email addresses depend on. However, as long as the domain name _de facto_ remains in the possession of the original provider, this is technically possible, already. Email address porting might even be possible without a persistent domain/DNS entry. After phone numbers get ported, the _sender_ (of sms, or a call) caches the new routing, and the original carrier doesn't know the ported phone number is getting a call in the new carrier's network. I'd be interested in discussing this sort of thing for well established internet services (such a central authority already exists, ICANN, but perhaps legislators can come up with a non-US authority for emails)

londons_explore 5y ago
I would imagine it takes the form of a government "porting server", where anyone can query an email address and receive back a different target email address. All people sending email will be required by law to first consult the porting server to determine where to send email. It could be as simple as an http endpoint. Total development costs and running costs could be pretty low - low enough that the government can argue it is more than paid for from increased tax revenue from mail providers.
- vt100 5y ago
  This could perhaps be integrated with PGP keyservers
- g_p 5y ago
  Rather than creating a central "government porting server", you could make this a "cost of doing business" of someone wishing to provide an email service to the public. In the event that an ISP or digital services provider wishes to cease providing email service, they could be required to provide minimal access to enable updated provision of either a forwarding email address (which the provider would forward mail to), or an MX to redirect the sender to use. This would avoid the need for a big central "porting server", and retain the simplicity of doing a DNS lookup for one or more current MX records. Given spam challenges, the former is likely unattractive (who wants to use their own IP ranges to relay potential spam to former users?), but the latter could likely work, or be made to work. I realise the MX approach doesn't quite work, and you'd likely need to relay the email, but this is more akin to how the phone number porting system works - you ask the number block owner on each call, and they can either accept the call, or point you towards the correct destination network. This topic is of indirect relevance and interest to the UK telecoms regulator [1], since many households rely on an email address from their ISP, which could become a barrier to switching, or result in long-term extractive pricing from users who have no real choice other than to pay a former ISP over the odds for email service to retain an old address. [1] https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/features-and-news/why-broadband-providers-charge-for-email https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/features-and-new...
  - oauea 5y ago
    > who wants to use their own IP ranges to relay potential spam to former users In your example, anyone who wants to legally run an email hosting business.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  This is literally how DNS works. Get your own domain and you can forward mail anywhere in the world.
- scarface74 5y ago
  Having the government having information about everyone’s email address… What could possibly go wrong?
  - ollifi 5y ago
    Probably nothing? They (or we I guess) have phone numbers and addresses as well.
    - scarface74 5y ago
      You have a lot more faith in a government that has proven plenty of times that they can’t be trusted with information than you probably should.
fdewnijfwg 5y ago
How would you even solve porting without breaking legacy systems? You can point the MX records to another provider's server (or your own), but porting single email addresses won't really work.
- thfuran 5y ago
  I assume a similar issue existed for telephone numbers. Was it wrong to require that they be portable?
  - g_p 5y ago
    When you dial a number, you generally look up the owner of the number range in a list, then initiate signalling contact with them. They may take the incoming messages, or they may point you towards another network the user can be reached on (i.e. if they have ported their number) In essence, in the regulated telecoms space, the number block owner retains responsibility for routing to the new network after a number port.
    - thfuran 5y ago
      And did all Telecom providers have the ability to do that sort of forwarding before the statutory requirement to allow numbers to be ported?
- criddell 5y ago
  Legacy systems will be broken.
- estaseuropano 5y ago
  You could easily oblige forwarding. You cannot shut someone out and then not allow them a) a backup of all data noe unavailable and b) and auto forward to an email of their choice.
  - fdewnijfwg 5y ago
    Alas, email forwarding is fairly broken since DKIM/DMARC/SPF/SRS came into the picture. As for not allowing people to save their data before shutting down, I agreee. That's a consumer rights issue though, and not a technical one.
stickfigure 5y ago
We have email porting already. With a custom domain, you can point it at any mail host you like. It costs a few bucks a year. There's no reason for a complicated legal structure to ensure mail forwarding (which just begs for abuse). Users already have the power. Use it.
- oauea 5y ago
  Are you volunteering to call my grandma and walk her through setting that up? Are you also going to pay the yearly domain fees? No? The legal framework needs some work.
  - layer8 5y ago
    Seriously, the domain fees shouldn’t be an issue. And while registering a domain and connecting it to a suitable email provider is a bit more involved than setting up a new phone number, it’s not that complicated either. People without any technical affinity will need help with both. I agree though that there should be legal resort to not losing your email address.
  - stickfigure 5y ago
    Are you suggesting that everyone has a legal right to a free email address? Phone numbers aren't free either, a phone line is way more expensive than a domain. If you think there's real demand for email portability, go into business! A service that lets you buy a domain and route to different email providers is well within the abilities of a single programmer. Make the UI idiot proof and charge a few bucks more than the registration fee.

londons_explore 5y ago

I would imagine it takes the form of a government "porting server", where anyone can query an email address and receive back a different target email address. All people sending email will be required by law to first consult the porting server to determine where to send email. It could be as simple as an http endpoint. Total development costs and running costs could be pretty low - low enough that the government can argue it is more than paid for from increased tax revenue from mail providers.

vt100 5y ago
This could perhaps be integrated with PGP keyservers
g_p 5y ago
Rather than creating a central "government porting server", you could make this a "cost of doing business" of someone wishing to provide an email service to the public. In the event that an ISP or digital services provider wishes to cease providing email service, they could be required to provide minimal access to enable updated provision of either a forwarding email address (which the provider would forward mail to), or an MX to redirect the sender to use. This would avoid the need for a big central "porting server", and retain the simplicity of doing a DNS lookup for one or more current MX records. Given spam challenges, the former is likely unattractive (who wants to use their own IP ranges to relay potential spam to former users?), but the latter could likely work, or be made to work. I realise the MX approach doesn't quite work, and you'd likely need to relay the email, but this is more akin to how the phone number porting system works - you ask the number block owner on each call, and they can either accept the call, or point you towards the correct destination network. This topic is of indirect relevance and interest to the UK telecoms regulator [1], since many households rely on an email address from their ISP, which could become a barrier to switching, or result in long-term extractive pricing from users who have no real choice other than to pay a former ISP over the odds for email service to retain an old address. [1] https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/features-and-news/why-broadband-providers-charge-for-email https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/features-and-new...
- oauea 5y ago
  > who wants to use their own IP ranges to relay potential spam to former users In your example, anyone who wants to legally run an email hosting business.
stickfigure 5y ago
This is literally how DNS works. Get your own domain and you can forward mail anywhere in the world.
scarface74 5y ago
Having the government having information about everyone’s email address… What could possibly go wrong?
- ollifi 5y ago
  Probably nothing? They (or we I guess) have phone numbers and addresses as well.
  - scarface74 5y ago
    You have a lot more faith in a government that has proven plenty of times that they can’t be trusted with information than you probably should.

fdewnijfwg 5y ago

How would you even solve porting without breaking legacy systems? You can point the MX records to another provider's server (or your own), but porting single email addresses won't really work.

thfuran 5y ago
I assume a similar issue existed for telephone numbers. Was it wrong to require that they be portable?
- g_p 5y ago
  When you dial a number, you generally look up the owner of the number range in a list, then initiate signalling contact with them. They may take the incoming messages, or they may point you towards another network the user can be reached on (i.e. if they have ported their number) In essence, in the regulated telecoms space, the number block owner retains responsibility for routing to the new network after a number port.
  - thfuran 5y ago
    And did all Telecom providers have the ability to do that sort of forwarding before the statutory requirement to allow numbers to be ported?
criddell 5y ago
Legacy systems will be broken.
estaseuropano 5y ago
You could easily oblige forwarding. You cannot shut someone out and then not allow them a) a backup of all data noe unavailable and b) and auto forward to an email of their choice.
- fdewnijfwg 5y ago
  Alas, email forwarding is fairly broken since DKIM/DMARC/SPF/SRS came into the picture. As for not allowing people to save their data before shutting down, I agreee. That's a consumer rights issue though, and not a technical one.

stickfigure 5y ago

We have email porting already. With a custom domain, you can point it at any mail host you like. It costs a few bucks a year. There's no reason for a complicated legal structure to ensure mail forwarding (which just begs for abuse). Users already have the power. Use it.

oauea 5y ago
Are you volunteering to call my grandma and walk her through setting that up? Are you also going to pay the yearly domain fees? No? The legal framework needs some work.
- layer8 5y ago
  Seriously, the domain fees shouldn’t be an issue. And while registering a domain and connecting it to a suitable email provider is a bit more involved than setting up a new phone number, it’s not that complicated either. People without any technical affinity will need help with both. I agree though that there should be legal resort to not losing your email address.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  Are you suggesting that everyone has a legal right to a free email address? Phone numbers aren't free either, a phone line is way more expensive than a domain. If you think there's real demand for email portability, go into business! A service that lets you buy a domain and route to different email providers is well within the abilities of a single programmer. Make the UI idiot proof and charge a few bucks more than the registration fee.