4 ms·

Gemini space has been my most interesting discovery in 2022. It seems to have the potential to deliver what most people say they want from a progressive "small

Gemini space has been my most interesting discovery in 2022. It seems to have the potential to deliver what most people say they want from a progressive "small internet" ie. not a nostalgic "old internet".

SyzygistSix 5y ago
Gemini space? What is this?
- marginalia_nu 5y ago
  https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ https://gemini.circumlunar.space/
7thaccount 5y ago
Thanks for linking to this. It looks like something I've been looking for if I understand it properly. It would be neat to have a barebones OS running on a tiny computer that you could access a simplified internet.
- foxfluff 5y ago
  I'm hoping I could find a community interested in.. I don't want to say exactly "low tech" computing but I guess the idea is pretty close. Cheap microcontrollers today are incredibly powerful.
  - anthk 5y ago
    Alpine Linux, sacc and cgnml as Gopher/Gemini clients. CWM+Urxvt as the only X interface, because Gemini uses Unicode and the framebuffer support is not that complete. Alpine should be installed with a diskless/RAM mode, so there are no FS changes commited unless you do an "lbu commit -d". Once you set up sacc, cgnml, and nsxiv for pictures, (and maybe moc for music) there's nothing much more to save. On hw basis, maybe an RPI B+ with a tiny display. Done.
    - 7thaccount 5y ago
      Thank you! I'll have to Google some of these terms though.
mattlondon 5y ago
I was reluctant to get involved with Gemini initially - it seemed like Gopher had already existed and could benefit from a revival, rather than someone creating something new (after all, Gopher+ actually offers some good possibilities for doing more modern things, and TLS support is now ubiquitous in gopher even if not officially in the spec) Upon reading some more about Gemini though - especially solderpunk's "ponderings" phlog entries (https://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw?=zaibatsu.circumlunar.space+70+312f7e736f6c64657270756e6b2f70686c6f67 https://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw?=zaibatsu.circumlunar....) that I grew to appreicate where gemini came from - a considered criticism of where gopher has not aged well. Gemini has grown to address some of those short comings and that is actually quite nice, and the main driving force for it came from an active user of gopher already so that seemed nice. What I do find a bit annoying is gemini-the-protocol vs gemini-the-philosophy. E.g. there was a client (I forget the details - sorry) that introduced the concept of a unicode "favicon" and a few people lost their shit about it. Nothing was wrong with the favicon thing - it was totally legit use of the gemini protocol but people were angry about just the concept of a client making requests that they felt did not fit their view of what gemini "means", with various threats about blocking all users/IPs that made requests for a favicon etc. I find this viewpoint from "small internet" proponents fairly sad and annoying. If the protocol allows it, who are they to say what is right or proper and what is not? It makes me want to write a gemini client that supports styling and some sort of "GeminiObjectModel" and javascript support purely out of principle/trolling-lolz :-)
- foxfluff 5y ago
  > E.g. there was a client (I forget the details - sorry) that introduced the concept of a unicode "favicon" and a few people lost their shit about it. Here's the whole story: https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/issues/199 https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/issues/19... I wish the ML archive linked down there weren't dead, sigh.
  - mattlondon 5y ago
    It is on archive.org - https://web.archive.org/web/20210513001351/lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2021/005384.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210513001351/lists.orbitalfox....
zozbot234 5y ago
Gemini itself is quite silly though - the "tech" is just the modern equivalent of a hairshirt. You could easily have similarly lightweight sites on a modern HTTP(S)+HTML5 platform. It'd be nice if there was a social norm that all 'Gemini sites' must always be provided as both, without the user having to fiddle with proxy sites, "alternative clients" or whatever.
- Jaruzel 5y ago
  I think you've hit the nail on the head here. What's needed is a HTML-Lite specification that can be used to drive the 'small' web. No need for bespoke clients - totally accessible. It would also allow older machines to access it as well.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    HTML5 could easily be that specification. Clients could be set to ignore not just JavaScript but even CSS automatically (this can easily be done in current Firefox!), and a separate social mechanism could be used to certify sites as "working properly" when doing this. This would be a meaningful way to make "Gemini-equivalent" near mainstream, in a way that Gemini itself will likely never be.
    - Jaruzel 5y ago
      I don't disagree that this is one approach, but I don't think we can wholly rely on end users to do this. If small site owners start using this defined 'lite' specification with some sort of visual cue (bring back those little GIFs! 'Proudly built as "WebLite"') we may be able to start a grass roots movement.
      - zozbot234 5y ago
        Yes, "works properly when ignoring CSS" could just be used as a convenient objective standard for "lite", that obviates the need for an incompatible spec altogether.

SyzygistSix 5y ago

Gemini space? What is this?

marginalia_nu 5y ago
https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ https://gemini.circumlunar.space/

7thaccount 5y ago

Thanks for linking to this. It looks like something I've been looking for if I understand it properly. It would be neat to have a barebones OS running on a tiny computer that you could access a simplified internet.

foxfluff 5y ago
I'm hoping I could find a community interested in.. I don't want to say exactly "low tech" computing but I guess the idea is pretty close. Cheap microcontrollers today are incredibly powerful.
- anthk 5y ago
  Alpine Linux, sacc and cgnml as Gopher/Gemini clients. CWM+Urxvt as the only X interface, because Gemini uses Unicode and the framebuffer support is not that complete. Alpine should be installed with a diskless/RAM mode, so there are no FS changes commited unless you do an "lbu commit -d". Once you set up sacc, cgnml, and nsxiv for pictures, (and maybe moc for music) there's nothing much more to save. On hw basis, maybe an RPI B+ with a tiny display. Done.
  - 7thaccount 5y ago
    Thank you! I'll have to Google some of these terms though.

mattlondon 5y ago

I was reluctant to get involved with Gemini initially - it seemed like Gopher had already existed and could benefit from a revival, rather than someone creating something new (after all, Gopher+ actually offers some good possibilities for doing more modern things, and TLS support is now ubiquitous in gopher even if not officially in the spec) Upon reading some more about Gemini though - especially solderpunk's "ponderings" phlog entries (https://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw?=zaibatsu.circumlunar.space+70+312f7e736f6c64657270756e6b2f70686c6f67 https://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw?=zaibatsu.circumlunar....) that I grew to appreicate where gemini came from - a considered criticism of where gopher has not aged well. Gemini has grown to address some of those short comings and that is actually quite nice, and the main driving force for it came from an active user of gopher already so that seemed nice. What I do find a bit annoying is gemini-the-protocol vs gemini-the-philosophy. E.g. there was a client (I forget the details - sorry) that introduced the concept of a unicode "favicon" and a few people lost their shit about it. Nothing was wrong with the favicon thing - it was totally legit use of the gemini protocol but people were angry about just the concept of a client making requests that they felt did not fit their view of what gemini "means", with various threats about blocking all users/IPs that made requests for a favicon etc. I find this viewpoint from "small internet" proponents fairly sad and annoying. If the protocol allows it, who are they to say what is right or proper and what is not? It makes me want to write a gemini client that supports styling and some sort of "GeminiObjectModel" and javascript support purely out of principle/trolling-lolz :-)

foxfluff 5y ago
> E.g. there was a client (I forget the details - sorry) that introduced the concept of a unicode "favicon" and a few people lost their shit about it. Here's the whole story: https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/issues/199 https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/issues/19... I wish the ML archive linked down there weren't dead, sigh.
- mattlondon 5y ago
  It is on archive.org - https://web.archive.org/web/20210513001351/lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2021/005384.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210513001351/lists.orbitalfox....

zozbot234 5y ago

Gemini itself is quite silly though - the "tech" is just the modern equivalent of a hairshirt. You could easily have similarly lightweight sites on a modern HTTP(S)+HTML5 platform. It'd be nice if there was a social norm that all 'Gemini sites' must always be provided as both, without the user having to fiddle with proxy sites, "alternative clients" or whatever.

Jaruzel 5y ago
I think you've hit the nail on the head here. What's needed is a HTML-Lite specification that can be used to drive the 'small' web. No need for bespoke clients - totally accessible. It would also allow older machines to access it as well.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  HTML5 could easily be that specification. Clients could be set to ignore not just JavaScript but even CSS automatically (this can easily be done in current Firefox!), and a separate social mechanism could be used to certify sites as "working properly" when doing this. This would be a meaningful way to make "Gemini-equivalent" near mainstream, in a way that Gemini itself will likely never be.
  - Jaruzel 5y ago
    I don't disagree that this is one approach, but I don't think we can wholly rely on end users to do this. If small site owners start using this defined 'lite' specification with some sort of visual cue (bring back those little GIFs! 'Proudly built as "WebLite"') we may be able to start a grass roots movement.
    - zozbot234 5y ago
      Yes, "works properly when ignoring CSS" could just be used as a convenient objective standard for "lite", that obviates the need for an incompatible spec altogether.