4 ms·

> You can't honestly say that about Firefox nowadays That's the big problem. Looking at this only from an average user perspective, it's absolutely right, and

by ghusto 5y ago

> You can't honestly say that about Firefox nowadays That's the big problem. Looking at this only from an average user perspective, it's absolutely right, and "oh yeah well that doesn't work as well as in Chrome because Google pushed an overly complicated unnecessary feature into the standards that requires a company the size of Google to actually maintain and develop it", will only get you blank stares. I hope I'm wrong, but can't help feeling this war is lost. I can't see how you compete when the rules are being written out by your adversary. For what it's worth though, Firefox for _me_ is better than the other options in every way; container tabs, easy privacy options, clean interface, etc. I love it.

dskloet 5y ago
> doesn't work as well as in Chrome Did you mean Firefox there?
- saurik 5y ago
  No: it would be "Chrome", as the feature doesn't work in Firefox as well "as in Chrome" due to requiring the aforementioned army to develop and maintain.
  - dskloet 5y ago
    I guess I missed the second "as".
iqanq 5y ago
Google is a convenient scapegoat, but the current state of Firefox is 100% Mozilla's fault, and until you realise that you will be far away from a solution.
- libertine 5y ago
  Man, as soon as you visit google without chrome you get asked if you want to install Chrome. It's not even close to a fair game. Not saying Mozilla doesn't have some faults, but Google is just playing a different game.
  - iqanq 5y ago
    As soon as I visit every website I am asked to install an app. That doesn't mean I install any. People will only switch browsers if they are discontent with what they have.
    - littlecosmic 5y ago
      I think people's general dissatisfaction with bloated sites and slow internet will make them try Chrome when Google, a company they mostly trust, tells them its better. Then Chrome will prompt them to become the default and for a lot people that will be it.
    - libertine 5y ago
      Every website =/= Google. At this point in time, people wholeheartedly trust Google. Chrome works well enough for the majority of people. Would Firefox improvements make such a difference in comparison to Chrome? With the current processing power we have on our hands and laptops, I doubt people would care. As a marketer, the only way to go about this would be "the path of privacy", and maybe try to get traction in the EU market where privacy is being valued to the point of having proper legislation in place. If Firefox became the standard for privacy, I can see large public organizations start to make the shift, even if it was for compliance reasons. Then maybe people who use those browsers at work will start to use them at home. Of course I'm pulling this out of my ass, but it's A path I can see as an hypothesis.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    People who have Firefox installed are not being hypnotized into switching to Chrome. Switching to Chrome involves figuring out an entirely new application for dubious marginal benefit. Or at least that used to be true, until Firefox completely remade their only product to be an imitation of their competitor; now the difference is unnoticeable (other than Firefox is slightly worse.) This is not something Chrome did, this is something Firefox did. Firefox was a superior browser in almost every way to Chrome, the only selling point to Chrome was that you could crash a tab without crashing the entire browser. Firefox conquered massive engineering challenges and aggressively fought its own users for its current position as an also-ran/historical footnote. edit: and an indication that Firefox doesn't care is that so many Firefox remoaners feel like they can't switch because they rely on Tree-Style Tabs, and Firefox not only doesn't hire the developer and pull the project in-house, they actively sabotage the project through UI intrusions and inflexibility about those intrusions that require the kind of technical confidence to fix that average people don't have (or want.) And they periodically break even that. I think Tree-Style Tabs will be as seamless as they were on Firefox 5 years ago on Chrome before they will be so on Firefox again.

by ghusto 5y ago

dskloet 5y ago

> doesn't work as well as in Chrome Did you mean Firefox there?

saurik 5y ago
No: it would be "Chrome", as the feature doesn't work in Firefox as well "as in Chrome" due to requiring the aforementioned army to develop and maintain.
- dskloet 5y ago
  I guess I missed the second "as".

iqanq 5y ago

Google is a convenient scapegoat, but the current state of Firefox is 100% Mozilla's fault, and until you realise that you will be far away from a solution.

libertine 5y ago
Man, as soon as you visit google without chrome you get asked if you want to install Chrome. It's not even close to a fair game. Not saying Mozilla doesn't have some faults, but Google is just playing a different game.
- iqanq 5y ago
  As soon as I visit every website I am asked to install an app. That doesn't mean I install any. People will only switch browsers if they are discontent with what they have.
  - littlecosmic 5y ago
    I think people's general dissatisfaction with bloated sites and slow internet will make them try Chrome when Google, a company they mostly trust, tells them its better. Then Chrome will prompt them to become the default and for a lot people that will be it.
  - libertine 5y ago
    Every website =/= Google. At this point in time, people wholeheartedly trust Google. Chrome works well enough for the majority of people. Would Firefox improvements make such a difference in comparison to Chrome? With the current processing power we have on our hands and laptops, I doubt people would care. As a marketer, the only way to go about this would be "the path of privacy", and maybe try to get traction in the EU market where privacy is being valued to the point of having proper legislation in place. If Firefox became the standard for privacy, I can see large public organizations start to make the shift, even if it was for compliance reasons. Then maybe people who use those browsers at work will start to use them at home. Of course I'm pulling this out of my ass, but it's A path I can see as an hypothesis.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  People who have Firefox installed are not being hypnotized into switching to Chrome. Switching to Chrome involves figuring out an entirely new application for dubious marginal benefit. Or at least that used to be true, until Firefox completely remade their only product to be an imitation of their competitor; now the difference is unnoticeable (other than Firefox is slightly worse.) This is not something Chrome did, this is something Firefox did. Firefox was a superior browser in almost every way to Chrome, the only selling point to Chrome was that you could crash a tab without crashing the entire browser. Firefox conquered massive engineering challenges and aggressively fought its own users for its current position as an also-ran/historical footnote. edit: and an indication that Firefox doesn't care is that so many Firefox remoaners feel like they can't switch because they rely on Tree-Style Tabs, and Firefox not only doesn't hire the developer and pull the project in-house, they actively sabotage the project through UI intrusions and inflexibility about those intrusions that require the kind of technical confidence to fix that average people don't have (or want.) And they periodically break even that. I think Tree-Style Tabs will be as seamless as they were on Firefox 5 years ago on Chrome before they will be so on Firefox again.