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> "All shader languages are very similar to C". Even counting only mainstream shader languages, MSL is explicitly based on C++ and not C. C++ is a C variant. I

> "All shader languages are very similar to C". Even counting only mainstream shader languages, MSL is explicitly based on C++ and not C. C++ is a C variant. I think they were more getting at where’s Shader Pascal, Ruby, Lisp?

raphlinus 5y ago
While it has roots in C, I think it's better to consider it a separate language, especially in more modern forms (Metal is C++14). Metal is locked into Apple's proprietary platforms, but there is other work in compiling C++ to portable shaders, particularly Sean Baxter's Circle, as well as some academic work[1]. There's also of course rust-gpu. I think it's fair to say that in 5 to 10 years we will no longer be writing shaders in C, but will have moved on to a higher level language. [1]: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2109.14682.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/2109.14682.pdf
- solarmist 5y ago
  Python has roots in C, but you can still write valid compilable C alongside C++, so I'm not sure what you're trying to imply. Sure it's another language, but the C at it's core isn't going anywhere.
gfxgirl 5y ago
The deference between C and C++ is vast. You can do templates and meta programming in C++ that you can't in C. Similarly you can do templates and meta programming in Metal So to say all shader languages are based on C is as useful as saying they're all based on assembly. I'm not saying C++ style templates are good or bad but they're vastly more powerful than not having them and if you're using those other C based shader languages you'll end up having to do code generation in some other language to provide the same features as a C++ based shader language
ncmncm 5y ago
You and I are ape variants. But it is the sum of our differences from apes that matters, almost always. C++ code that looks like C is, typically, bad code. The C legacy is not going away, but is less and less relevant.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Now that is something I agree on. :)
p_l 5y ago
Bunch of internal lisps generating all kinds of shader code (or OpenCL in at least one case), plus things like CEPL (which also generates shaders from CL data/code) and Shinmera uses in his game engine automatic composition of shaders using CLOS metaobjects, iirc

raphlinus 5y ago

While it has roots in C, I think it's better to consider it a separate language, especially in more modern forms (Metal is C++14). Metal is locked into Apple's proprietary platforms, but there is other work in compiling C++ to portable shaders, particularly Sean Baxter's Circle, as well as some academic work[1]. There's also of course rust-gpu. I think it's fair to say that in 5 to 10 years we will no longer be writing shaders in C, but will have moved on to a higher level language. [1]: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2109.14682.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/2109.14682.pdf

solarmist 5y ago
Python has roots in C, but you can still write valid compilable C alongside C++, so I'm not sure what you're trying to imply. Sure it's another language, but the C at it's core isn't going anywhere.

gfxgirl 5y ago

The deference between C and C++ is vast. You can do templates and meta programming in C++ that you can't in C. Similarly you can do templates and meta programming in Metal So to say all shader languages are based on C is as useful as saying they're all based on assembly. I'm not saying C++ style templates are good or bad but they're vastly more powerful than not having them and if you're using those other C based shader languages you'll end up having to do code generation in some other language to provide the same features as a C++ based shader language

ncmncm 5y ago

You and I are ape variants. But it is the sum of our differences from apes that matters, almost always. C++ code that looks like C is, typically, bad code. The C legacy is not going away, but is less and less relevant.

pjmlp 5y ago
Now that is something I agree on. :)

p_l 5y ago

Bunch of internal lisps generating all kinds of shader code (or OpenCL in at least one case), plus things like CEPL (which also generates shaders from CL data/code) and Shinmera uses in his game engine automatic composition of shaders using CLOS metaobjects, iirc