5 ms·

Foreign money funding ‘extremism’ in Canada

15 points by ta988 5y ago

jevoten 5y ago
- slater 5y ago
  Not sure if sarcasm...?
rvz 5y ago
Well then these terrorists, extremists, and criminals are already running to Signal, since they can chat securely amongst themselves in these groups with the added benefit of being able to donate and send untraceable, censorship resistant cryptocurrencies like MobileCoin to each other to fund their operations. Best part is that it's all E2EE and the government will never know what is going on and how to stop all of it, unless they go after the services and servers Signal is deployed on (Google) and tell them to shut it all down. When these extremists and terrorists discover the unlimited potential without consequences and little risks of getting caught by using Signal, it will just get worse.
jollybean 5y ago
This is bad form by the Guardian. The truckers are very much grass roots and not inherently political. They are effectively 'working class' and leaderless, wary of years of suppressive measures (as we all are). Definitely 'vaxx misinformed' (a quick purview of their TikTok's reveals this), and definitely a bit crude and noisy with the horns ... ... but they are the furthest thing from 'extremist'. MSNBC today also characterised the protests with terminology such as 'far right wing' trying to put it in American scare mongering tactics of those perennial 'far right nebulous forces'. While there may actually be such a thing in the US (that MSNBC no doubt also misrepresents), it's not remotely the case in Canada in general and certainly not the protestors who really are 'just a bunch of angry people'. It's entirely understandable that leaders everywhere are wary of populist uprisings getting out of hand, especially at a time when we are not quite sure if we are done with the pandemic, and another wave may definitely require us to apply at least some measures, but this is ridiculous. It's nauseating to have to read every, single, news source with such a hefty dose of cynicism, as if to be on guard for the constant editorial aggrandizations. It's no wonder a lot of regular people are thumbing their noses at 'The Media' because after all, whatever issue they read about seems to be tinged in a manner that even regular people seem to be able to detect. A better title would have been 'Foreign money fuelling protests in Canada'. That would have been perfectly reasonable and accurate.
- Blueskytech 5y ago
  The fact that this comment is being downvoted enough for it to have turned grey is why I never post about civil liberties on hacker news, who wants to lose karma? I guess I will do my part today and ask people to upvote reasonable posts like this so that perhaps chilling effects on speech will not increase through negative karma feedback loops.
  - vhimnv 5y ago
    > who wants to lose karma? Who cares about points on social media?
  - jollybean 5y ago
    On HN they don't like it when you 'talk about voting' because they feel it's kind of pointless, which is kind of true. But at the same time, despite the fact that we like to think of ourselves as 'smart people' - the voting here has nary any rhyme or reason. It's just populism. PG himself said it was fine to vote based on 'agreement' instead of 'quality' - which is an interesting thing, because agreement is essentially instinctive and it can bring out our worst impulses. If you want to try to find answers or be fair in this world, you will be loathe by all - that's just the reality of it. Since most of the 'misinformation' in this world is derived from people's ideologies and peculiar worldviews, people will tend to assume that you don't like them or their ideology - or worse - that you are 'one of the enemies' even for the mildest disagreement. I don't have the link handy but 'out group negativity' is one of the most common points of agreement among like minded people. Essentially, 'Hating on Conservatives/Liberals' is the primary activity of political groups, it engenders more attention that promoting own ideals. Being 'agreeable' is the surest way to be charming and making friends, but being disagreeable and questioning is heresy and confrontation. The other, peculiar issue, is that most bad arguments are founded upon a grain of truth. That grain of truth, which can sometimes be very visceral and potent (say for example, slavery in America, USSR/Communism in 20th century), tends to enable dramatised and aggrandised ideals in response. The biases of all of the mainstream sources become clear after a while, and most people are going to respond by being angry and conspiratorial, instead of trying to do the heavy lifting of wading through the muddy bits, which is understandable. The Prime Minster of Canada referred to people protesting against lockdowns as 'racist and misogynist' - which is brutally cynical and unethical, something which he was not held accountable for in most of the press. He then referred to them as having 'unacceptable views' while discussing of using military force, and now he's using never before used 'emergency measures'. This is deeply disturbing authoritarianism, however much I disagree with the protestors is besides the point. The CBC, the national broadcaster, openly supported by the current government (in financial terms) has also unfairly misrepresented the nature of the protestors. If you were to watch the protests live on various TikTok streams, and then see what was being reported on TV (I did this live), you'd think you're living in a kind of totalitarian state. I have no love for the protesters and they are definitely anti-vaxxers and needlessly rowdy ... but misrepresenting and arbitrarily slandering them on the supposedly 'objective news' is deeply unethical and a form of corruption. FYI - on the same weekend that those protesting with 'unacceptable views', those 'unacceptable views' became policy in Denmark and mostly in England, and announced in Sweden as well. Not exactly forgone countries. It's a sensitive time, and media bias is worth scrutinising, the Guardian is not above scrutiny.
cantspeakmind85 5y ago
hourislate 5y ago
Trudeau is working overtime to create a boogeyman so they can take more rights away from people. It's all so predictable it's laughable. First they start off with Right Wing Extremists. Then they move on to foreign actors trying to disrupt Canadian lives. Meanwhile it Joe6Pack from down the street who is out there because they are trying to prevent him from being able to live, work, shop, or exist. These folks who don't want to take the Vaccine are being subjugated to Trudeau's (Doug Ford too) discriminatory policy and there should be an organized effort to drag their corrupt asses in front of the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal.
- slater 5y ago
  > First they start off with Right Wing Extremists. Then they move on to foreign actors Both can be true.
  - hourislate 5y ago
    Please...
moistly 5y ago
Some would have you believe there are no extremists involved. But… “13 arrests, guns seized — and a possible ‘conspiracy’ to commit murder: RCMP swoop in on Coutts, Alta. border protest” : https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2022/02/14/rcmp-seize-haul-of-guns-ammo-and-make-11-arrests-at-coutts-alta-border-protest.html https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2022/02/14/rcmp-seize-ha... This conversation on “Okanagan Freedom Convoy” Zello channel : https://www.reddit.com/r/kelowna/comments/ssoyfm/troublingscary_words_from_a_kelowna_resident_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/kelowna/comments/ssoyfm/troublingsc... A guy (YVR_Sex) checked out the email addresses in the donations leak. “just checked the data set for "85@" through "90@". You know, since it's common for people to end their email addresses with their birth year, or other numbers they are um, fans of. 200 hits across the board, except for one. "88@" had 350 hits. Were almost twice as many people born in 1988?” : https://www.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/comments/ssj6t3/comment/hwzwt8k/ https://www.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/comments/ssj6t3/comm... They “swore in” their own “peace officers”, aka an illegal militia (see Criminal Code section 130) : https://mobile.twitter.com/glen_mcgregor/status/1491872930782855183 https://mobile.twitter.com/glen_mcgregor/status/149187293078... They attack school children (this sort of thing has happened repeatedly) : https://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton/359896/Protesters-showed-up-to-South-Okanagan-Secondary-school-on-Friday https://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton/359896/Protesters-sh... https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-elementary-school-students-harassed-for-wearing-masks-in-park-1.5778739 https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-elementary-school-student... https://pressprogress.ca/ottawa-parents-harassed-by-pick-up-truck-while-dropping-kids-off-at-elementary-school https://pressprogress.ca/ottawa-parents-harassed-by-pick-up-... “The Ottawa trucker protest is rooted in extremism, a national security expert says” : https://www.npr.org/2022/02/10/1079842220/ottawa-trucker-convoy-protest https://www.npr.org/2022/02/10/1079842220/ottawa-trucker-con... Surely by now your all aware that these protests were organized by white supremacists. And that one of them, Pat King, has stated “The only way this (the Freedom Convoy protest) is going to get solved is with bullets.” : https://mrsbrittanybested.com/2022/02/03/whats-wrong-with-pat-king/ https://mrsbrittanybested.com/2022/02/03/whats-wrong-with-pa... But in case you’re not aware, “Who is who? A guide to the major players in the trucker convoy protest” : https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/who-is-who-a-guide-to-the-major-players-in-the-trucker-convoy-protest-1.5776441 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/who-is-who-a-guide-to-the-majo... And of course there’s the absolutely batshit crazy MOU, in which they state their desire to overthrow the government : https://nationalpost.com/opinion/what-the-truckers-want-and-why-ottawa-cant-give-it-to-them https://nationalpost.com/opinion/what-the-truckers-want-and-... One could go on and on with examples of extremism in this “trucker” convoy, but I tire of it.
Day1 5y ago
Chinese money has been heavily funding the Democrats too. Not much you can do
- livinglist 5y ago
  democracy, right?
  - Day1 5y ago
    that’s what we’re calling it these days anyways

15 points by ta988 5y ago

slater 5y ago
Not sure if sarcasm...?

rvz 5y ago

Well then these terrorists, extremists, and criminals are already running to Signal, since they can chat securely amongst themselves in these groups with the added benefit of being able to donate and send untraceable, censorship resistant cryptocurrencies like MobileCoin to each other to fund their operations. Best part is that it's all E2EE and the government will never know what is going on and how to stop all of it, unless they go after the services and servers Signal is deployed on (Google) and tell them to shut it all down. When these extremists and terrorists discover the unlimited potential without consequences and little risks of getting caught by using Signal, it will just get worse.

jollybean 5y ago

This is bad form by the Guardian. The truckers are very much grass roots and not inherently political. They are effectively 'working class' and leaderless, wary of years of suppressive measures (as we all are). Definitely 'vaxx misinformed' (a quick purview of their TikTok's reveals this), and definitely a bit crude and noisy with the horns ... ... but they are the furthest thing from 'extremist'. MSNBC today also characterised the protests with terminology such as 'far right wing' trying to put it in American scare mongering tactics of those perennial 'far right nebulous forces'. While there may actually be such a thing in the US (that MSNBC no doubt also misrepresents), it's not remotely the case in Canada in general and certainly not the protestors who really are 'just a bunch of angry people'. It's entirely understandable that leaders everywhere are wary of populist uprisings getting out of hand, especially at a time when we are not quite sure if we are done with the pandemic, and another wave may definitely require us to apply at least some measures, but this is ridiculous. It's nauseating to have to read every, single, news source with such a hefty dose of cynicism, as if to be on guard for the constant editorial aggrandizations. It's no wonder a lot of regular people are thumbing their noses at 'The Media' because after all, whatever issue they read about seems to be tinged in a manner that even regular people seem to be able to detect. A better title would have been 'Foreign money fuelling protests in Canada'. That would have been perfectly reasonable and accurate.

Blueskytech 5y ago
The fact that this comment is being downvoted enough for it to have turned grey is why I never post about civil liberties on hacker news, who wants to lose karma? I guess I will do my part today and ask people to upvote reasonable posts like this so that perhaps chilling effects on speech will not increase through negative karma feedback loops.
- vhimnv 5y ago
  > who wants to lose karma? Who cares about points on social media?
- jollybean 5y ago
  On HN they don't like it when you 'talk about voting' because they feel it's kind of pointless, which is kind of true. But at the same time, despite the fact that we like to think of ourselves as 'smart people' - the voting here has nary any rhyme or reason. It's just populism. PG himself said it was fine to vote based on 'agreement' instead of 'quality' - which is an interesting thing, because agreement is essentially instinctive and it can bring out our worst impulses. If you want to try to find answers or be fair in this world, you will be loathe by all - that's just the reality of it. Since most of the 'misinformation' in this world is derived from people's ideologies and peculiar worldviews, people will tend to assume that you don't like them or their ideology - or worse - that you are 'one of the enemies' even for the mildest disagreement. I don't have the link handy but 'out group negativity' is one of the most common points of agreement among like minded people. Essentially, 'Hating on Conservatives/Liberals' is the primary activity of political groups, it engenders more attention that promoting own ideals. Being 'agreeable' is the surest way to be charming and making friends, but being disagreeable and questioning is heresy and confrontation. The other, peculiar issue, is that most bad arguments are founded upon a grain of truth. That grain of truth, which can sometimes be very visceral and potent (say for example, slavery in America, USSR/Communism in 20th century), tends to enable dramatised and aggrandised ideals in response. The biases of all of the mainstream sources become clear after a while, and most people are going to respond by being angry and conspiratorial, instead of trying to do the heavy lifting of wading through the muddy bits, which is understandable. The Prime Minster of Canada referred to people protesting against lockdowns as 'racist and misogynist' - which is brutally cynical and unethical, something which he was not held accountable for in most of the press. He then referred to them as having 'unacceptable views' while discussing of using military force, and now he's using never before used 'emergency measures'. This is deeply disturbing authoritarianism, however much I disagree with the protestors is besides the point. The CBC, the national broadcaster, openly supported by the current government (in financial terms) has also unfairly misrepresented the nature of the protestors. If you were to watch the protests live on various TikTok streams, and then see what was being reported on TV (I did this live), you'd think you're living in a kind of totalitarian state. I have no love for the protesters and they are definitely anti-vaxxers and needlessly rowdy ... but misrepresenting and arbitrarily slandering them on the supposedly 'objective news' is deeply unethical and a form of corruption. FYI - on the same weekend that those protesting with 'unacceptable views', those 'unacceptable views' became policy in Denmark and mostly in England, and announced in Sweden as well. Not exactly forgone countries. It's a sensitive time, and media bias is worth scrutinising, the Guardian is not above scrutiny.

cantspeakmind85 5y ago

hourislate 5y ago

Trudeau is working overtime to create a boogeyman so they can take more rights away from people. It's all so predictable it's laughable. First they start off with Right Wing Extremists. Then they move on to foreign actors trying to disrupt Canadian lives. Meanwhile it Joe6Pack from down the street who is out there because they are trying to prevent him from being able to live, work, shop, or exist. These folks who don't want to take the Vaccine are being subjugated to Trudeau's (Doug Ford too) discriminatory policy and there should be an organized effort to drag their corrupt asses in front of the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal.

slater 5y ago
> First they start off with Right Wing Extremists. Then they move on to foreign actors Both can be true.
- hourislate 5y ago
  Please...

moistly 5y ago

Some would have you believe there are no extremists involved. But… “13 arrests, guns seized — and a possible ‘conspiracy’ to commit murder: RCMP swoop in on Coutts, Alta. border protest” : https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2022/02/14/rcmp-seize-haul-of-guns-ammo-and-make-11-arrests-at-coutts-alta-border-protest.html https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2022/02/14/rcmp-seize-ha... This conversation on “Okanagan Freedom Convoy” Zello channel : https://www.reddit.com/r/kelowna/comments/ssoyfm/troublingscary_words_from_a_kelowna_resident_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/kelowna/comments/ssoyfm/troublingsc... A guy (YVR_Sex) checked out the email addresses in the donations leak. “just checked the data set for "85@" through "90@". You know, since it's common for people to end their email addresses with their birth year, or other numbers they are um, fans of. 200 hits across the board, except for one. "88@" had 350 hits. Were almost twice as many people born in 1988?” : https://www.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/comments/ssj6t3/comment/hwzwt8k/ https://www.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/comments/ssj6t3/comm... They “swore in” their own “peace officers”, aka an illegal militia (see Criminal Code section 130) : https://mobile.twitter.com/glen_mcgregor/status/1491872930782855183 https://mobile.twitter.com/glen_mcgregor/status/149187293078... They attack school children (this sort of thing has happened repeatedly) : https://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton/359896/Protesters-showed-up-to-South-Okanagan-Secondary-school-on-Friday https://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton/359896/Protesters-sh... https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-elementary-school-students-harassed-for-wearing-masks-in-park-1.5778739 https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-elementary-school-student... https://pressprogress.ca/ottawa-parents-harassed-by-pick-up-truck-while-dropping-kids-off-at-elementary-school https://pressprogress.ca/ottawa-parents-harassed-by-pick-up-... “The Ottawa trucker protest is rooted in extremism, a national security expert says” : https://www.npr.org/2022/02/10/1079842220/ottawa-trucker-convoy-protest https://www.npr.org/2022/02/10/1079842220/ottawa-trucker-con... Surely by now your all aware that these protests were organized by white supremacists. And that one of them, Pat King, has stated “The only way this (the Freedom Convoy protest) is going to get solved is with bullets.” : https://mrsbrittanybested.com/2022/02/03/whats-wrong-with-pat-king/ https://mrsbrittanybested.com/2022/02/03/whats-wrong-with-pa... But in case you’re not aware, “Who is who? A guide to the major players in the trucker convoy protest” : https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/who-is-who-a-guide-to-the-major-players-in-the-trucker-convoy-protest-1.5776441 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/who-is-who-a-guide-to-the-majo... And of course there’s the absolutely batshit crazy MOU, in which they state their desire to overthrow the government : https://nationalpost.com/opinion/what-the-truckers-want-and-why-ottawa-cant-give-it-to-them https://nationalpost.com/opinion/what-the-truckers-want-and-... One could go on and on with examples of extremism in this “trucker” convoy, but I tire of it.

Day1 5y ago

Chinese money has been heavily funding the Democrats too. Not much you can do

livinglist 5y ago
democracy, right?
- Day1 5y ago
  that’s what we’re calling it these days anyways