4 ms·

I remember when it launched and I got to find out who on Mastodon had a consistent praxis and who had puritanical views on sex workers.

by Kye 5y ago

shadowgovt 5y ago
It is depressingly unsurprising how many people who ostensibly espouse "Free speech as an ideal right" are discovered to mean "Wait not like that" when the speech violates their other core beliefs.
- throwaway47292 5y ago
  Beware the preachers. (Bukowski) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0doGM_6izYg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0doGM_6izYg
- prionassembly 5y ago
  What aggravates me the most is seeing people argue that "first amendment applies only to government, corporations are free to do as they wish". Yes, but didn't we used to be in favor of free speech as an abstract dignity of humans?
  - shadowgovt 5y ago
    Depends on who "we" is. I used to think of it that way, but nowadays I think of it more as a good principle to underpin effective government. For starters, lots of governments have a different comprehension of it than mine does and they do well.
  - krapp 5y ago
    The right of free speech has always implied a right to choose what speech not to support, tolerate or publish. Compelled speech is not free speech. That's why the First Amendment doesn't allow the government to abridge speech, because the right to abridge speech is held by the people as an aspect of free speech, as well as the freedom of association and private property. It's the same principle as "your right to swing your fist ends where my face begins," and it used to be commonly understood as a necessary, fundamental building block of civil society. Unfortunately we seem to have somehow spontaneously forgotten this and now, if anyone doesn't simply accept a punch to the the face they're infringing on your rights.
  - pkilgore 5y ago
    > didn't we used to be in favor of free speech as an abstract dignity of humans? You're redefining free speech. Free speech is freedom to speak without fear of consequences from your government. What you're asking for is freedom to speak without consequences from your fellow citizens and your standing in the social community. That's never been how humans have worked, ever. And I doubt even you would want to live in a world where you could not ignore, walk away from, remove from your property, mock, or shout down speech you disagreed with.
- harpersealtako 5y ago
  Hasn't Mastodon always been transparently anti-free-speech? I thought the whole point of it was people who thought there was too much free speech on Twitter and wanted to be able to create a more censorious platform.
  - Kye 5y ago
    Mastodon's lead dev has always been pro-following the laws of his country, which precludes supporting certain kinds of speech. That's a long way from being anti-free-speech.
    - harpersealtako 5y ago
      No, I'm talking more about the entire federalization model. The whole point of Mastodon is to be twitter without nazis, unless I'm completely misunderstanding.
      - Kye 5y ago
        That has not at any point been the pitch. You can see the creator's posts in the original Show HN where it's clear this was always just an alternative to Twitter in a neutral way: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12646083 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12646083 No talk of politics. I've been on it from near the start. I really can't understand how you got the idea that it was anything more than a roll-your-own-Twitter from the outset. His own feed is 99% cats. If he's especially focused on politics, it doesn't show.
zaarn 5y ago
Tbh way too many instances banned them when simply blocking the media from the instance was sufficient (I run a family-friendly instance, so NSFW on the timeline isn't great).
sp332 5y ago
Refusing to align with people who are 90% in agreement with you is why you aren't getting a formidable political bloc.
- Kye 5y ago
  Those awkward moments where someone ostensibly on my "side" jokes about scouring the Earth of anyone where I live because they only know it as a red shape on election result maps.
- giraffe_lady 5y ago
  well being unable to acknowledge your labor as a legitimate form of work does probably fall into that 10% overlap you need to form a labor movement though.

I remember when it launched and I got to find out who on Mastodon had a consistent praxis and who had puritanical views on sex workers.

by Kye 5y ago

I remember when it launched and I got to find out who on Mastodon had a consistent praxis and who had puritanical views on sex workers.

shadowgovt 5y ago

It is depressingly unsurprising how many people who ostensibly espouse "Free speech as an ideal right" are discovered to mean "Wait not like that" when the speech violates their other core beliefs.

throwaway47292 5y ago
Beware the preachers. (Bukowski) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0doGM_6izYg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0doGM_6izYg
prionassembly 5y ago
What aggravates me the most is seeing people argue that "first amendment applies only to government, corporations are free to do as they wish". Yes, but didn't we used to be in favor of free speech as an abstract dignity of humans?
- shadowgovt 5y ago
  Depends on who "we" is. I used to think of it that way, but nowadays I think of it more as a good principle to underpin effective government. For starters, lots of governments have a different comprehension of it than mine does and they do well.
- krapp 5y ago
  The right of free speech has always implied a right to choose what speech not to support, tolerate or publish. Compelled speech is not free speech. That's why the First Amendment doesn't allow the government to abridge speech, because the right to abridge speech is held by the people as an aspect of free speech, as well as the freedom of association and private property. It's the same principle as "your right to swing your fist ends where my face begins," and it used to be commonly understood as a necessary, fundamental building block of civil society. Unfortunately we seem to have somehow spontaneously forgotten this and now, if anyone doesn't simply accept a punch to the the face they're infringing on your rights.
- pkilgore 5y ago
  > didn't we used to be in favor of free speech as an abstract dignity of humans? You're redefining free speech. Free speech is freedom to speak without fear of consequences from your government. What you're asking for is freedom to speak without consequences from your fellow citizens and your standing in the social community. That's never been how humans have worked, ever. And I doubt even you would want to live in a world where you could not ignore, walk away from, remove from your property, mock, or shout down speech you disagreed with.
harpersealtako 5y ago
Hasn't Mastodon always been transparently anti-free-speech? I thought the whole point of it was people who thought there was too much free speech on Twitter and wanted to be able to create a more censorious platform.
- Kye 5y ago
  Mastodon's lead dev has always been pro-following the laws of his country, which precludes supporting certain kinds of speech. That's a long way from being anti-free-speech.
  - harpersealtako 5y ago
    No, I'm talking more about the entire federalization model. The whole point of Mastodon is to be twitter without nazis, unless I'm completely misunderstanding.
    - Kye 5y ago
      That has not at any point been the pitch. You can see the creator's posts in the original Show HN where it's clear this was always just an alternative to Twitter in a neutral way: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12646083 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12646083 No talk of politics. I've been on it from near the start. I really can't understand how you got the idea that it was anything more than a roll-your-own-Twitter from the outset. His own feed is 99% cats. If he's especially focused on politics, it doesn't show.

zaarn 5y ago

Tbh way too many instances banned them when simply blocking the media from the instance was sufficient (I run a family-friendly instance, so NSFW on the timeline isn't great).

sp332 5y ago

Refusing to align with people who are 90% in agreement with you is why you aren't getting a formidable political bloc.

Kye 5y ago
Those awkward moments where someone ostensibly on my "side" jokes about scouring the Earth of anyone where I live because they only know it as a red shape on election result maps.
giraffe_lady 5y ago
well being unable to acknowledge your labor as a legitimate form of work does probably fall into that 10% overlap you need to form a labor movement though.