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It makes me also think of the poorest in our populations. Governments that have support systems for struggling families have put in hurdles to accessing those f

It makes me also think of the poorest in our populations. Governments that have support systems for struggling families have put in hurdles to accessing those funds. It has the benefit of preventing abuse of the system but we need to be careful how it may prevent access to those who need it.

aaronbrethorst 5y ago
Recent case in point: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-manchin-build-back-better-child-tax-credit-drugs_n_61bf8f6be4b061afe394006d https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-manchin-build-back-better...
AussieWog93 5y ago
Thomas Sowell's theory was that the primary reason most of those systems were put in place is not so much to prevent abuse but to guarantee a level of security/power/income for the bureaucrats.
- HarryHirsch 5y ago
  Hence most of these systems are so shitty, like that both sides of the aisle benefit. Bus shows up only every 120 minutes? One side says "we told you it wouldn't work", and the other side says "at least we tried".
- Spooky23 5y ago
  Every stupid process in social services is driven by the NY Post and similar outlets. Q: “Why did nobody notice the baby is sick?” A: Babies are weighed in every interaction, which is humiliating to parents. Q: “Why didn’t you stop Sally from enrolling for benefits in 2 counties?” A: Fingerprint indigent beneficiaries, at their expense. Q: “Why should people on drugs get welfare?” A: A family loses crucial benefits because mom smoked weed. Bureaucracy builds walls out of process to remove individual agency. But politicians design programs to meet different goals, and social services law was no different.
  - Chris2048 5y ago
    > Babies are weighed in every interaction, which is humiliating to parents. Why is this humiliating?
    - Spooky23 5y ago
      Every week, some random clerk can decide that your baby hasn’t gained enough weight, and therefore you are an unfit mother.
      - AussieWog93 5y ago
        Yeah, my wife noted this. Puts a lot of pressure on mothers to overfeed their kids.
detaro 5y ago
Very much so, these systems are often needlessly and unfairly adversarial. And I assume quite often the system is not even saving money overall by doing so.
mcv 5y ago
Excellent point. Some people/media/politicians are so terrified that someone might get money they're not entitled to, that they design paranoid systems that are likely to deny people money that they are entitled to. Netherland recently had the long-running scandal of the "toeslagenaffaire", where the tax service had a tendency to assume people from foreign ethnicity or double nationality might be committing fraud, and gave them additional checks and hoops to jump through, leading to a lot of people to be treated as criminals and have to pay back money that they did have every right to. Was incredibly poorly handled, government fell over the scandal, but the new government consists of exactly the same parties, with the same PM, and I have no faith at all that this won't happen again.

aaronbrethorst 5y ago

Recent case in point: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-manchin-build-back-better-child-tax-credit-drugs_n_61bf8f6be4b061afe394006d https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-manchin-build-back-better...

AussieWog93 5y ago

Thomas Sowell's theory was that the primary reason most of those systems were put in place is not so much to prevent abuse but to guarantee a level of security/power/income for the bureaucrats.

HarryHirsch 5y ago
Hence most of these systems are so shitty, like that both sides of the aisle benefit. Bus shows up only every 120 minutes? One side says "we told you it wouldn't work", and the other side says "at least we tried".
Spooky23 5y ago
Every stupid process in social services is driven by the NY Post and similar outlets. Q: “Why did nobody notice the baby is sick?” A: Babies are weighed in every interaction, which is humiliating to parents. Q: “Why didn’t you stop Sally from enrolling for benefits in 2 counties?” A: Fingerprint indigent beneficiaries, at their expense. Q: “Why should people on drugs get welfare?” A: A family loses crucial benefits because mom smoked weed. Bureaucracy builds walls out of process to remove individual agency. But politicians design programs to meet different goals, and social services law was no different.
- Chris2048 5y ago
  > Babies are weighed in every interaction, which is humiliating to parents. Why is this humiliating?
  - Spooky23 5y ago
    Every week, some random clerk can decide that your baby hasn’t gained enough weight, and therefore you are an unfit mother.
    - AussieWog93 5y ago
      Yeah, my wife noted this. Puts a lot of pressure on mothers to overfeed their kids.

detaro 5y ago

Very much so, these systems are often needlessly and unfairly adversarial. And I assume quite often the system is not even saving money overall by doing so.

mcv 5y ago

Excellent point. Some people/media/politicians are so terrified that someone might get money they're not entitled to, that they design paranoid systems that are likely to deny people money that they are entitled to. Netherland recently had the long-running scandal of the "toeslagenaffaire", where the tax service had a tendency to assume people from foreign ethnicity or double nationality might be committing fraud, and gave them additional checks and hoops to jump through, leading to a lot of people to be treated as criminals and have to pay back money that they did have every right to. Was incredibly poorly handled, government fell over the scandal, but the new government consists of exactly the same parties, with the same PM, and I have no faith at all that this won't happen again.