4 ms·

Just want to make sure everyone has the correct piece of data to think about this. The mandate says that non-Canadian truckers need to be vaccinated to enter t

Just want to make sure everyone has the correct piece of data to think about this. The mandate says that non-Canadian truckers need to be vaccinated to enter the country. The mandate says that Canadian truckers, if they are not vaccinated, are not going to be exempt from the normal border entry measures, which is that they'd need to quarantine on entry unless they are vaccinated. The US has a similar mandate for Canadian truckers, they're not allowed to enter the US without being vaccinated. It's a little strange, because it effectively means that a trucker, either US or Canadian, who want to cross the boarder and then come back needs to be vaccinated because the other country forces them to do so. Each respective country doesn't force their own citizens Trucker to be vaccinated, but Canada does force them to quarantine on entry if not. That said, this doesn't really matter because to enter the other country they'll have to be vaccinated anyways. > I mean I am vaxxed and oppose vax mandates. How do you feel about paying for healthcare of people who are not vaccinated and need care to treat COVID?

oceanplexian 5y ago
>That said, this doesn't really matter because to enter the other country they'll have to be vaccinated anyways. Obviously an unvaccinated trucker from Canada cannot enter the US and return until both the Canadian and US restrictions are lifted. It doesn’t matter in which order they are lifted, but both need to be. Since they are Canadian citizens obviously they are protesting the Canadian component of the travel restriction. On a side note: How does it make sense that an unvaccinated trucker in Canada can legally deliver goods in Canada, and an unvaccinated trucker in the US can legally deliver goods in the USA, but they cannot deliver goods between the US and Canada. What is the science behind this exactly?
- verve_rat 5y ago
  The science says get vaccinated. It is not required to be vaccinated to deliver goods domestically because that would mean imposing the vaccine on citizens of their own respective countries, which is a can of worms neither government wants to open. But requiring foreign visitors to have certain vaccines is much less politically fraught. If you don't like it, tough, you don't get to enter said country. Asking what is the science behind these decisions is being disingenuous and you know that. Please stop.
- adra 5y ago
  The difference is in jurisdictional authority? Inner-provincial policy is mandated by the Ontario government and does not enter into federal politics. As to scientific or not science, the science is in. Vaccines reduce the spread and severity of COVID and governments generally attempt to mitigate the risk of dangerous things happening to their people needlessly. Why are mandates constantly changing? Look to the knowledge available to the decision makers when they set policy. Most governments try to thread the needle between positive economic and health outcomes, but to be sure, nobody know the right answer. All decisions have consequences.
pomdapi 5y ago
> How do you feel about paying for healthcare of people who are not vaccinated and need care to treat COVID? The same way I feel for them paying for my care the day I drove drunk and crashed, or when despite vaccines, I still got Covid Delta. Because I was obese, vaccines didn't help much. I had a lot more problems, and for several months longer than I would have had, had I : lost 35 Kg/75 lbs, lowered my blood sugar level (no diabetes but consistently high), eaten less meat, and had a regular life rythm to lower my blood pressure, as my family doctor implored me to do last three and a half years. Now I learned my lesson in really being responsible first of myself, and then acting according to principles of solidarity (as you imply the unvaccinated don't do). I now walk 10+ km a day, see a nutritionist and go to the gym three times a week. I also pay attention to my vitamin intake, and take blood samples every three months.
selcuka 5y ago
> How do you feel about paying for healthcare of people who are not vaccinated and need care to treat COVID? I'm not anti-vaxxer nor oppose vax mandates; but your question misses the point. I am happy to pay for healthcare of people who are not vaccinated the same way I'm happy to pay for healthcare of smokers with lung cancer. I would still do my best to educate them, though. Negligence or ignorance of others should not affect our social duties.
- fartcannon 5y ago
  They are getting educated. Near constantly. At what point does not getting a vaccine become negligence?
  - selcuka 5y ago
    > At what point does not getting a vaccine become negligence? I don't know and I don't care as I said in my previous comment. When does not quitting smoking become negligence? Negligence is bad, but they don't deserve to die if they can't afford health care.
    - fartcannon 5y ago
      I live in a country with free health care. No one is going broke from health costs here. However, people not getting the vaccine are filling up hospital beds which is preventing other people from getting care they need for other things. Therefore, not getting your vaccine is negligent.
  - delecti 5y ago
    Unfortunately there are forces deliberately spreading vaccine FUD, so it's not solely negligence to still be unvaccinated.
- rpeden 5y ago
  A few with your overall point, though it's worth noting that smokers pay a lot of tax to help offset their costs. A $15 pack of cigarettes in Ontario has about $9 of tax included in the price.
jhawk28 5y ago
> How do you feel about paying for healthcare of people who are not vaccinated and need care to treat COVID? Do you really want to go down that path? We provide healthcare to all sorts of people that choose to do things that impact their health (drunk drivers, drug addicts, etc). Hypothetically, what happens if there are long term health effects from the vaccinations? Should the unvaccinated say, "why should we pay for your heart treatments"?
Pigalowda 5y ago
> How do you feel about paying for healthcare of people who are not vaccinated and need care to treat COVID? I’m a vaccinated boosted physician and will continue to get boosted every 6 months. Mandates/coercion for medical treatment violate patient autonomy and medical ethics. I am ok with those who aren’t vaccinated getting medical treatment. Same with flu, mmr, DTP, and other vaccines. I’m ok with alcoholics, addicts, smokers, and the obese getting treatment. I’m ok with women getting pap smears and cervical cancer screening even if they don’t have gardisil. I’m ok with type 2 diabetics receiving insulin even if they did absolutely nothing to lower their A1C. What else is there? STD treatment? Coronary artery disease? Almost everything. Many people have health problems that are directly related to their own personal decisions. And yes, they should get treatment. Why has the world lost its fucking mind.
- fishidns 5y ago
  > Many people have health problems that are directly related to their own personal decisions. And yes, they should get treatment I agree in ideal, but the next question to make that a reality is how? You'll have to find ways to scale the system and pay for it all. And that's where you can experiment with taxes, levies, preventative mandates, regulations and such. This is how we managed to scale and offer those for smokers and all other prior.
dham 5y ago
What's your BMI, because in fact maybe I don't to pay for your healthcare? Did you eat fast food at all this month because in fact I don't really feel like paying for your healthcare anymore. When is the last time you played basketball or ran a couple miles, because in fact I don't want to pay for your healthcare. What is your diet like because I want you to upload it to my servers so I in fact can judge if I should pay for your healthcare. Do you have furniture with fire resistant material, do you have engineered hardwood floors, do you use roundup on your lawn, did you feed your children formula instead of breastfeeding, did you get an exterminator to spray pesticides when baits are just as good, do your pets get flea medication on their fur, because you know what if you did these things I don't want to pay for your health insurance because I personally think you make bad decisions.

oceanplexian 5y ago

>That said, this doesn't really matter because to enter the other country they'll have to be vaccinated anyways. Obviously an unvaccinated trucker from Canada cannot enter the US and return until both the Canadian and US restrictions are lifted. It doesn’t matter in which order they are lifted, but both need to be. Since they are Canadian citizens obviously they are protesting the Canadian component of the travel restriction. On a side note: How does it make sense that an unvaccinated trucker in Canada can legally deliver goods in Canada, and an unvaccinated trucker in the US can legally deliver goods in the USA, but they cannot deliver goods between the US and Canada. What is the science behind this exactly?

verve_rat 5y ago
The science says get vaccinated. It is not required to be vaccinated to deliver goods domestically because that would mean imposing the vaccine on citizens of their own respective countries, which is a can of worms neither government wants to open. But requiring foreign visitors to have certain vaccines is much less politically fraught. If you don't like it, tough, you don't get to enter said country. Asking what is the science behind these decisions is being disingenuous and you know that. Please stop.
adra 5y ago
The difference is in jurisdictional authority? Inner-provincial policy is mandated by the Ontario government and does not enter into federal politics. As to scientific or not science, the science is in. Vaccines reduce the spread and severity of COVID and governments generally attempt to mitigate the risk of dangerous things happening to their people needlessly. Why are mandates constantly changing? Look to the knowledge available to the decision makers when they set policy. Most governments try to thread the needle between positive economic and health outcomes, but to be sure, nobody know the right answer. All decisions have consequences.

pomdapi 5y ago

> How do you feel about paying for healthcare of people who are not vaccinated and need care to treat COVID? The same way I feel for them paying for my care the day I drove drunk and crashed, or when despite vaccines, I still got Covid Delta. Because I was obese, vaccines didn't help much. I had a lot more problems, and for several months longer than I would have had, had I : lost 35 Kg/75 lbs, lowered my blood sugar level (no diabetes but consistently high), eaten less meat, and had a regular life rythm to lower my blood pressure, as my family doctor implored me to do last three and a half years. Now I learned my lesson in really being responsible first of myself, and then acting according to principles of solidarity (as you imply the unvaccinated don't do). I now walk 10+ km a day, see a nutritionist and go to the gym three times a week. I also pay attention to my vitamin intake, and take blood samples every three months.

selcuka 5y ago

> How do you feel about paying for healthcare of people who are not vaccinated and need care to treat COVID? I'm not anti-vaxxer nor oppose vax mandates; but your question misses the point. I am happy to pay for healthcare of people who are not vaccinated the same way I'm happy to pay for healthcare of smokers with lung cancer. I would still do my best to educate them, though. Negligence or ignorance of others should not affect our social duties.

fartcannon 5y ago
They are getting educated. Near constantly. At what point does not getting a vaccine become negligence?
- selcuka 5y ago
  > At what point does not getting a vaccine become negligence? I don't know and I don't care as I said in my previous comment. When does not quitting smoking become negligence? Negligence is bad, but they don't deserve to die if they can't afford health care.
  - fartcannon 5y ago
    I live in a country with free health care. No one is going broke from health costs here. However, people not getting the vaccine are filling up hospital beds which is preventing other people from getting care they need for other things. Therefore, not getting your vaccine is negligent.
- delecti 5y ago
  Unfortunately there are forces deliberately spreading vaccine FUD, so it's not solely negligence to still be unvaccinated.
rpeden 5y ago
A few with your overall point, though it's worth noting that smokers pay a lot of tax to help offset their costs. A $15 pack of cigarettes in Ontario has about $9 of tax included in the price.

jhawk28 5y ago

> How do you feel about paying for healthcare of people who are not vaccinated and need care to treat COVID? Do you really want to go down that path? We provide healthcare to all sorts of people that choose to do things that impact their health (drunk drivers, drug addicts, etc). Hypothetically, what happens if there are long term health effects from the vaccinations? Should the unvaccinated say, "why should we pay for your heart treatments"?

Pigalowda 5y ago

> How do you feel about paying for healthcare of people who are not vaccinated and need care to treat COVID? I’m a vaccinated boosted physician and will continue to get boosted every 6 months. Mandates/coercion for medical treatment violate patient autonomy and medical ethics. I am ok with those who aren’t vaccinated getting medical treatment. Same with flu, mmr, DTP, and other vaccines. I’m ok with alcoholics, addicts, smokers, and the obese getting treatment. I’m ok with women getting pap smears and cervical cancer screening even if they don’t have gardisil. I’m ok with type 2 diabetics receiving insulin even if they did absolutely nothing to lower their A1C. What else is there? STD treatment? Coronary artery disease? Almost everything. Many people have health problems that are directly related to their own personal decisions. And yes, they should get treatment. Why has the world lost its fucking mind.

fishidns 5y ago
> Many people have health problems that are directly related to their own personal decisions. And yes, they should get treatment I agree in ideal, but the next question to make that a reality is how? You'll have to find ways to scale the system and pay for it all. And that's where you can experiment with taxes, levies, preventative mandates, regulations and such. This is how we managed to scale and offer those for smokers and all other prior.

dham 5y ago

What's your BMI, because in fact maybe I don't to pay for your healthcare? Did you eat fast food at all this month because in fact I don't really feel like paying for your healthcare anymore. When is the last time you played basketball or ran a couple miles, because in fact I don't want to pay for your healthcare. What is your diet like because I want you to upload it to my servers so I in fact can judge if I should pay for your healthcare. Do you have furniture with fire resistant material, do you have engineered hardwood floors, do you use roundup on your lawn, did you feed your children formula instead of breastfeeding, did you get an exterminator to spray pesticides when baits are just as good, do your pets get flea medication on their fur, because you know what if you did these things I don't want to pay for your health insurance because I personally think you make bad decisions.